Update? I haven’t actually seen this in the news for a week or so. Are they still doing this, or did they all get bored and go home after the novelty wore off?
It wasn’t a random armed dude, it was a disgruntled former employee who came there for the purpose of killing himself and others.
"Downing claimed he was fired by the Department of Labor in 1999 for being a whistleblower and “disclosing inexcusable public waste”.
He also claimed the agency was blocking him from further "employment.Gunman identified as Kevin Downing in federal building shooting, what we know about the suspect - ABC7 New York
This has *absolutely nothing at all *to do with the “civilian guards” at Recruitment centers. No recruitment center, no “civilian guards” (other than the Security guard who was shot- is it OK with Monty if the Govt hire civilians as security?)
As mentioned up-thread, they weren’t exactly welcomed by the actual military people concerned. Another thing to consider is that while one service member did not actually get charged for having an unauthorized firearm during the initial incident, not every commanding officer is [del]such a pussy wimp coward[/del] incompetent that the commanding officer will let others get away with violating orders and regulations relating to firearms.
Yeah, and what’s up with guys like this Sgt. Dakota Meyer (who obviously has far less real combat experience than Monty here) saying Lt Cmdr Timothy White is a hero, and did what was right. And this other clown, “Jim” Webb- who supports Lt Cmdr White, why he *only *has the Navy Cross for heroism in Vietnam, the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, and two Purple Hearts, and was only Secretary of the Navy and Asst Secy of Defense- obviously *he *is a “pussy wimp coward incompetent” - clearly Monty here, who I am sure did some very brave stuff during his tour of duty- is able to judge the Lt Cmdr better than this slacker. :rolleyes:
Is it against your religion to grasp an obvious point?
You’re not very good at trolling. May I suggest you get a new hobby?
Try not to be dishonest. Nowhere did I ever say I have more combat experience than that soldier. I certainly have more than you do. Oh, and once again, nobody cares about your father’s combat experience.
This is yet another example of your dishonesty. What’s with my posting was that it’s incredibly obvious that the commissioned officer who violated the military regulation did not get punished because in this case said officer assisted in taking out a threat–said threat not a constant threat, nor one that comes up all that often. It’s pretty obvious that in the case under discussion the reason the chain of command did not pursue non-judicial or judicial action is said chain caved to popular opinion. And that’s no way to run a military.
So, if you can manage to answer without your trolling comments, what do you think would have happened had that officer been searched the day before this event and the unauthorized weapon found on him? What do you think will happen, say, tomorrow, if during one of the random searches at a base entrance, another service member (regardless of rank) is discovered to have an unauthorized weapon on their person or in their vehicle? Do you seriously think that “I’m just protecting myself and others” will fly?
By the way, what did you do during your time in the military? Oh, that’s right.
And you can cram your rolleyes.
D_Odds: Be happy. You’re still correct.
I have a strong feeling that his OER (or whatever Navy types call it) is going to have some strongly worded bullet statements. O-5 is not in his future.
Remind me again–you were never actually in the military, right? You pretty much just try to live off your father’s reflected glory? Does he know you do this?
You’re the one who dissed my Dad’s service- a disabled, decorated WWII vet. Nice.:rolleyes:
Yes, and so sez the Personnelman First Class while the retired Secretary of the Navy and Asst Secy of Defense with a chestfull of actual combat medals sez differently. As well as the Marine with Medal Of Honor.
Now, I am not dissing a man with a typewriter- in order for those heroes to do what they did they needed someone behind the lines supporting them. And as even my dad said- he did better service with a Army Typewriter than a Chicago typewriter. But they dont let E6’s make those sorts of decisions. Thus your opinion, compared to the **Secretary of the Navy **is pretty *de minimus. *
You’re right, I never wore a military uniform a day in my life. I did spend 20 years as a Federal Agent fighting money laundering and terrorist financing. But no uniform- obviously that makes me a “pussy wimp coward incompetent”. Where were* you* right after 9/11? Yes, I was just a civilian, and those awards from the Justice, Treasury and oh yeah Navy dept- mean nothing since I didn’t wear* a uniform* and bravely sit at a desk and type up pay vouchers and leave requests. :rolleyes:
Nope, never wore a uniform. But Sgt. Dakota Meyer ,and “Jim” Webb- who has Navy Cross for heroism in Vietnam, the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, and two Purple Hearts, and was only Secretary of the Navy and Asst Secy of Defense- both support Lt Cmdr White.
I think that those guys opinions count for more than Monty’s. Who do you think- Secretary of the Navy , or Personnelman First Class? Marine MoH winner or Personnelman First Class ?
Those two may not be the best examples. Their military service speaks for itself. But both are politicians. Webb is running for president. Meyer has stated he wants to run for congress and makes a living pandering to the Tea Party crowd.
And being highly decorated does not necessarily make you right about anything.
Being *Secretary of the Navy *does explicitly mean your opinion on whether or not a Officer should be punished is better than a that of a Personnelman First Class.
You have two big problems here: First, you are committing the well-known error of argument from authority. You should probably know better. And of course second, you have no authority, so by your own argument your opinion is now meaningless.
We’re not in a High School Debate class, dipshit, we’re in the PIT. And you’re using it wrong: "In order to be fallacious, the argument must appeal to the authority because of their qualification in an irrelevant field and should be irrelevant to the argument at hand."
The Secretary of the Navy** is qualified in a relevant field. **
what a maroon.
Oh, if we’re in the PIT, then you’re a wannabe who’ll never measure up to his father. You’re the Dubya of Straightdopers.
So, speaking of qualified people (unlike yourself):
Is the chief of staff of the Army a qualified person?
I went to that site, which is something you should have done. And read the third sentence, which is something you should have done:
Notice how that’s different from your quote?
Being a presidential candidate means you will put all of your statements through the filter of what will get you more votes.* Being the Secretary of the Navy or a presidential candidate does not make you automatically right. Hell Bush was president. Twice. Did that make him right? And I like Jim Webb but on this issue I think he is pandering to the masses. If he was the current SECNAV he may have had to make a different decision.
- Although Trump doesn’t seem to care, but what the hell he’s entertaining.
Yet again, you lie. I did not “dis” anything other than your ridiculous patter. You’re the one that made combat experience an issue. I seem to recall that I posted earlier that actually hasn’t a blame thing to do with the issue of unregulated civilians pretending to guard recruiting offices.
You show rather a limited (read: zero) understanding of what I–or anyone else, for that matter–did in the US Navy.
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve asked this–mainly because I never bothered to count that–but here goes again: Exactly what part of my ship–bow, stern, keel, superstructure–was not at sea with the rest of the ship? You see (actually, you don’t), I was not “behind the lines”. I was on a ship.
My opinion is based on the law and regulations, not on politics.
Then, since you’re the one who thinks military experience trumps law and regulation on this issue, you really should stop your prattling.
Then you should know what the law says about military in the US performing “civilian law enforcement”, shouldn’t you? You should also be aware of the rationale behind background checks and discipline in a law enforcement organization as opposed to, say, having a “bunch of armed yokels” pretending to guard a very select few places with military recruiters present.
And where did I say that about you, liar?
Let’s see…I was approximately two years into my retirement after a full career in the US military, something I managed to do without violating the law and regulations regarding carrying unauthorized weapons. I was still subject to recall as, being approximately two years into my retirement means that I was in the Fleet Reserve.
Yet again, you show that you really do not know what happens in the US Navy.
Class: How many times is it now that twerp’s shown how stupid he is?
Hey, DD, Let’s try this again: I have posted a number of questions in this thread. Perhaps you would care to answer, say, just the last three, quoted here for your convenience:
On the positive side, D_Odds is still correct.
Indeed, I will never measure up to my Dad. Nor will you or Monty, either. However, after 9/11 my Dad was bragging to his Veteran buddies about what I was doing to protect America. What have you done to protect America?
But if you’re going to accuse people of Fallacies then Monty has done:Anecdotal fallacy - using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence. And, argumentum verbosium, Ad hominem , Appeal to accomplishment and others. I’m not gonna bother to list your "Logical fallacies’ .
Indeed, the chief of staff of the Army is- on the subject of whether or not Army recruiters should be armed. He is not a authority on whether or not a Navy Officer should be in a Court Martial. There’s two different issues and two different Services.
My quote is on that page too. Try reading- I know it’s hard, with the big words and all.:rolleyes: