Even though I’m not a virgin, and my answer isn’t “porn” the whole time… Working too much or working during prime socialization time didn’t help. I was an idiot for that, and need to make up for it now. Coupled with the fact that I’m nervous around woman I’m interested in and making excuses for not attending other social things, and the years sadly pass by very fast without the experiences necessary for the that type of grounding. In high school, I tried, and failed. Before that it was grade school with big goofy red hair, glasses, and braces… nothing was going to happen there and I knew it. I even did try there, but was too awkward and it was picked up on. I don’t think it helped that mom cheated on dad for a couple years centering around my 13 year old age range.
Honestly, my awkward school days and the cheating happened at the same time. I think these things did 2 things to my brain; Socially, things were a turn off. Being a dork in school solidified this. And 2nd, what ever my mom did, and the parents arguing in general, likely turned me off to relationships.
Now it all seems out of reach AND harder, and every aspect of it weighs on my shoulders. Guys like the OP and myself have a long way to go because it wasn’t taken care of early enough, which can be a lot of reasons. What sucks is that I’m better looking, have a job, and mostly very responsible, but it’s the past experiences that are holding me down. Getting the motivation and energy to do what all you say we should do is daunting and feels like it’s out of reach.
My goal is to get out of the house this year, it’s a huge step in the right direction. What I’m fearful of is after that (my thinking is that… now what?)
It’s worse knowing your problems and people telling you to just climb the ant hill and get on with your life when all I see is Mount Everest. So when I feel misunderstood, which is a lot, that compounds the size of the hill too.
Fuck, hope nobody I know reads that.
But, see, you’re now moving in the direction msmith37 is trying to move the OP.
msmith is not asking the OP to actually recount his life story. What he’s trying to get across is this: if you are failing to achieve something, especially a fundamental life skill, you must honestly examine your own shortcomings and devise a plan to fix them. If Ship of Fools wants to do better with the ladies, he’s going to have to accept that there’s no magic password; it’s a matter of changing one’s attitude, learning the basic skills, and practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. If you want to get lucky with the women, you need practice. As Arnold Palmer said, “The more I practice, the lukier I get.” He was talking about golf, but same idea.
If someone came in here saying “I just can’t seem to learn how to play the piano. There’s this one piano I’d love to play but it doesn’t seem to like me. Does anyone know how I can learn to play `The Entertainer’” we’d all just say “Go hire a piano teacher and practice.” If someone came here here saying “Holy shit. I’m 25 and I don’t know how to drive a car,” you’d say “Well, go get a learner’s permit, takje a driving course, and get your friends to let you practice on their cars.”
Shop of Fools, forget analyzing one specific girl’s mannerisms. In fact, forget about any one specific woman for now. Forget about tricks. Don’t even think about learning pick up lines; the only pick up lines you need are “Do you want to out for a coffee/drink,” “Do you want to have dinner with me” and “Do you want to come back to my place,” depending on how far you’ve gotten. Forget idiotic recipe books like “The Pick Up Artist.” Go back to basics:
Fix your appearance
Wear clean clothes that fit properly
Make sure your ride is clean and presentable
Put yourself into situations where you can meet young women. One of the best things you can do is join a co-ed sports league, the bigger the better. Classes are also good, especially lady-friendly ones. Interest groups, great idea. And sure, try out dating sites, why not? You need to meet more women. Lots more. As many as you can.
Chat up every eligible single woman you EVER meet, even if you’re not all that interested. Hell, chat in a friendly manner with the attached ones. Be nice, smile, ask friendly questions. Remember that you have two ears and one mouth. Use them in that proportion. If you pick a peice of imaginary lint off her sweater she will think you are an asshole, so don’t do that.
Practice
Practice
Practice
Practice
When you finally are interested in someone and you have put them at ease with the chatting up bit you’ve practiced, be forward about your intentions. Ask them on a low-pressure date. Do not wait months becoming her friend. She will assume you are not interested.
Accept that lots of women will say no, and lots who say yes won’t work out.
Practice
Practice
Practice
Practice
Practice (x100)
You know how many women I asked out before meeting my wife? I can’t even begin to count them all. I was rejected. I went on horrible dates. I got involved with women I would not set up my worst enemy with. I had my heart broken once or twice. But I got to go out with a lot of women, and I’m an ordinary-looking guy. I wasn’t rich, didn’t have a sweet car. I just followed the basics and I kept trying.
True, I suppose I should have quoted Fuzzy with my response.
I know my root causes. I even know the solutions. But simply the knowing the solutions isn’t going to help, but rather executing them like you’re all saying. I know this… for a long time now. It’s like people leaving free money on the table with their 401k. Most say they’ll get around to it, but there are barriers they need to get through to execute their plan. I have barriers and I need to break through them. I want to improve… these walls are tall. Thanks for the advice RickJay.
Hey, nothing really worthwhile is easy. I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s easy.
I was an ugly kid and didn’t really get reasonably handsome until I was… oh, 18, 19, I guess. It wasn’t easy to really get my mojo on. I was not popular with the ladies without a LOT of work and believe me what I tell you I spent a lot of time terrified of trying, scared of failure, thinking “meh, it would just be easier to stay home.” But I generally succeed at most things by being doggedly persistent and being willing to listen to advice - I once actually employed a female friend to assist me in learning how to dress - so I just kept trying. It was hard. REALLY hard. But then, it started getting easy. Things do, when you practice.
But, Jesus, ya don’t wanna go through life always doing the easy thing, right? Do whatever it takes to get you out there, to sign up to that co-ed sports league. Have a beer, smoke some weed, tell a friend to force you to go, whatever works for you. Gets easier with time. Trust me.
I was only responding indirectly to Sleeps With Butterflies who felt it was inappropriate to even ask about root causes. I didn’t mean to suggest that implementation is easy and insight is challenging when I agree it’s exactly the opposite.
I was really speaking to people offering advice, too, not to people with the problem. As in, before you jump in and tell people what to do, one ought to make sure you really understand the problem.
That’s why I think just telling the OP to “be confident” and so on might not be particularly helpful.
I think they are probably ok as a kind of framework to understanding the social dynamics. Maybe they give you new tips and tricks for when you’re out at the club with your boys. On the other hand, if your social anxiety prevents you from going to places where you would likely meet women, let along approach one, it’s not going to help you.
I agree with everything you said, and you said it so much better than I could have.
I, have a very similar story. Uncountable numbers of rejections, horrible blind dates, short-term relationships that led nowhere after a month or two. But each taught me something, and eventually I did meet my wife.