Clueless in dealing with girls

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I know this is a long post, and there might not be much great advice to offer on this problem. But I suppose more than anything I’m happy to get this whole story out of my system, and to just let it be known what I’ve been going through.

I’ve been hesitant to ask for help with this online since it seems fairly complicated and I can’t possibly fill in all the particulars. But now I figured what the hell, surely there are people out there who have had more experience with this kind of stuff and could help me at least a bit. I’m 23 and have yet to even go on a date, so I know this all seems pretty juvenile. I have had a few girls express interest in me over the years, but my shyness had kept me from doing much to reciprocate the interest. If I knew a girl was already taken, then I’d generally have no trouble chatting with her, but otherwise I’d tend to get nervous.

My current problem, though, has to do with a coworker at my job as a cashier. From the moment I first saw her as I walked into work one day, she caught my eye as being beautiful. But I had always been pretty nervous and shy around attractive girls, and I knew very little about her, including whether or not she had a boyfriend. So I just kept my distance from her for the first few months she was there, and kept a sort of neutral opinion toward her. She wasn’t particularly outgoing, so I never really interacted with her closely. As the months went by though, I couldn’t help but notice subtle ways she seemed to be expressing interest in me, such as how she looked at me, or the sort of tone she took on the few occasions when she spoke to me. One event that made me notably curious occurred when I was speaking with another coworker nearby her, almost close enough for her to be part of the conversation, and out of the corner of my eye I noticed her staring at me; when I turned to her, she quickly looked away. I also gradually came to appreciate that I was “compatible” with her based on the few qualities I did learn of hers. These factors only encouraged me to show in subtle ways that I, too, was interested in her.

Everything changed this past February, shortly after Valentine’s Day. When I walked up to the front desk to ask one of the managers about something, she was behind the desk as well, and was smiling at me in such a way that I considered almost certainly flirtatious. As I waited for the manager to bring me something from the back room, she continued smiling at me which I had difficulty keeping from blushing and feeling a bit nervous about. Still, after I walked back to my register, I was on cloud nine, feeling like she definitely liked me. I was still nervous about how to react to her apparent interest in me, and was still blushing a bit about it, but I did my best to subtly reciprocate my interest before leaving for the night. I cheerfully said my goodbye just before leaving, but it was then that she rejected me without saying a word. My noticeable nervousness must’ve been a turn off to her, and the simple disapproving facial expression she gave as she said her goodbye in return made it clear(she just sort of tilted her head and bit her lip, almost suggesting “sorry, I don’t think I like you anymore”).

When I got home, I felt crushed. It was like I fell from cloud nine down into the pavement far below. I was briefly depressed about this mishap, but quickly learned that I needed to get out more and get more experience dealing with girls if I hoped to react well to an apparent interest from one. I began studying Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, and this helped me immensely in becoming more outgoing and confident(it was truly life changing). So from then on, I just accepted that my nervousness was such a turn-off to her that she wouldn’t give me another shot, and I just did my best to ignore her for the most part, so as not to seem desperate or needy to her. But at the same time, I continued to employ what I had learned from REBT, and so all my coworkers, including her, had surely noticed the improvements in my sociability and confidence over the weeks that followed. Gradually then, I noticed in subtle ways that she seemed to still be interested in me, likely because of my increased confidence. I didn’t mind if she came to like me again perhaps as a result of the confidence, but I was still mistrustful toward her for the fact that she rejected me the first time.

Then in late March, it was like deja vu from that February night; she was showing the same seeming flirtatiousness, and I was better able to keep from getting nervous about it this time, but I wasn’t so sure I could keep completely calm in doing something like flirting back, and I certainly didn’t want to get rejected again. So I just sort of stared off at the wall across from her, slightly grinning as she continued smiling at me, and thought to myself, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.” When I got home though, I began to have ambivalent feelings about whether or not I should still be fearing another rejection from her. I knew I would like to be able to get to know her better, and that maybe she would be more accepting of me now even though I still didn’t feel I could be completely confident around her, as I may have seemed to be around most other people. So then I began feeling crushed again, worrying that she and I could be happy together, but I’m rejecting her attempts at showing interest in me.

I fell into a brief depression again, out of the fear that she might believe I’m totally not interested in her, and so would give up on pursuing me altogether. I took on irrational feelings of a dire need for her love, and the deluded belief that we could be soulmates, or something of that sort. When I came into work again in early April, the depression and “heartbreak” were getting to me; I was feeling a mild pain in the chest, and just general illness. I noticed that she too seemed to be feeling ill, and irrationally concluded at the time that she must be going through the same feelings of heartbreak as I was. I still had not the courage to be direct with her about it, but I tried my best in the subtle ways I could, to show my “love” for her. But throughout the day I felt maybe she really was losing hope in me, and my subtle signs were just no damn good. That day was April 3rd, I believe, and I wasn’t to see her again until April 15th, as I saw on my work schedule; she had been quite ill. So here I was, worrying terribly throughout many of the days till the 15th that my failures to adequately reciprocate an interest in her might be causing her illness, and just feeling awful in general because I had yet to be direct with her about this whole mess. I knew I had to do something, so I mustered up all the courage I could and decided I’d ask for her phone number on the 15th. My fear of rejection was still great, and the 15th turned out to be one of the most thrilling days of my life; I was determined to face one of my greatest fears.

So on the 15th, she came into work, and was to be finishing her shift around the same time in the evening as me. But the effects of her illness were still apparent in her general lack of vigor and dark circles under her eyes. Perhaps I made a mistake in attempting to look toward her more than usual, since she was likely self-conscious of her ill appearance. I decided I would ask for her number once no one else was nearby, and there were a few times where I thought I had an opportunity, but someone came around. Halfway through my shift, a voice in the back of head was screaming out that I must act soon! But my “voice of reason” insisted to be patient, since I had a couple hours yet till the end of our shifts. But oh, how cruel fate can seem at times; she went home early very shortly thereafter, as her illness was getting to her. I presumed at first that she was simply taking a break, but she was not to return that night. At least in coming so close to asking for her number, I had pretty much conquered the fear, but I missed the chance to ask.

I’ve pretty much gotten over the crazy idea of a dire need or love for her, but I just want closure now. I don’t know when I might see her again next, if at all(she could get fired or quit as a result of her illness). Even though I’ve accepted the possibility of her rejecting me, I don’t know if I could go on working with her without knowing for sure one way or the other whether or not she truly would accept me. I’ve seen how vague and useless subtlety can be, and just want to be direct once and for all. So where do I go from here? Should I ask for her number the next chance I get? Or do something else?

In any case, thanks for reading. Like I said, I guess I just wanted to get this out of my system more than anything.

2

Ask her for her number. The worst that can happen is she won’t give it to you; the best that can happen is she will.

Why the God-awful nervousness in the first place? I’m no expert but your self esteem seems to be in question here.

3

Linking to this very recent thread may prevent a lot of people from repeating themselves.

4

The person who hasn’t been through this is rare, so you are not alone. You’re a smart guy, you can get through this. Remember when you couldn’t drive, and never thought you’d be able to get it, and now you can without a second thought? Same kind of thing.

Nervousness itself is not necessarily off-putting; it’s just that from outside your head, your body language can look like lack of interest or even rudeness. Indeed, her sudden changes from apparently interested to reserved and back again are probably a sign of nervousness on her part. But beware of over-reading things into every tiny detail of her behaviour. You will just sap your courage without gaining any actual real-world information.

You seem to be drowning in overthinking the whole thing.

A technique sometimes used by psychiatrists (one of which I am not, I hasten to say) to control the whirlwind of thoughts chasing each other in your head is called thought-stopping. Three steps. In your head, say STOP! loudly. By mental brute force, stop the thoughts momentarily. Next, THINK. Take a few seconds to be rational. She is just as scared as you. If you want something, it is going to have to be up to you to make it happen. Get on with it. Before the thoughts have a chance to start up again, DO something. Make it easy. Walk up, smile, make a point of looking her in the eyes (without staring) and say “Hi. I’ve seen you around a lot, and I was wondering if you’d like to have coffee with me sometime?” Mention your name if you aren’t sure she already knows it. When she says yes, say “How about (insert convenient time here)?”. If appropriate, get her number to make further arrangements, or see how coffee goes.

The anxiety you have is a bad feeling. The only way to make the misery go away is to give it a shot. In your head, failure feels like a huge catastrophe, but try and keep a bit of perspective - it’s only that way in your head. You know that.

5

I get really nervous around girls I like too but eventually you just have to bite the bullet and ask. I’m reading your post and thinking if you do get a date with this girl your next post will be a link to a spreadsheet detailing the pros and cons of leaning in for a kiss under numerous specific circumstances.

You need to lower the pedestal you’ve placed her on and stop seeing her as some sort of goal, achievement, or validation. She’s just a person and your only worry should be to find out if you can get along well. Stop analyzing her and your every word and move when you interact. Ask her out and if she says no, that’s really ok. Now you know and you can stop wasting your time and emotions on it. Just remember that you asked her out and didn’t die, explode, or have your face placed on billboards so that you can be mocked by all; so you should be able to ask other girls out in the future and survive the experience as well.

And if she says yes? Well, that’s pretty awesome. Bring us your spreadsheet and we’ll figure out where to go from there. :wink:

Either way, best of luck. I know this can be really hard so I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you.

6

Relax. Easy for me to say, I know.

You’re really overthinking yourself into anxiety, and that will never bring about good results. Guessing what she’s feeling or thinking is a fool’s game. Just ask her to a casual coffee like mentioned above. If she says no, then you can be free of worrying about it. If she says yes, you can be free of worrying about it.

Planning your relationships or dates in your mind will set you up for some kind of disappointment even if things go well. Try to just approach her as a “no big thing” kind of deal. I guarantee you that she’s just a girl and someone you may or may not have fun with. There’s little magic to it, just step by step progress in one direction or another.

Be done with working it over in your brain and make a commitment to yourself to ask her out the next time you work with her.

Good luck.

7

Is this because of the warmer weather, or something? All the young girls jogging in halter tops and short-shorts? All these “I need a girlfriend” threads coming around at the same time makes me wonder.

8

Don’t listen to everybody saying that you should relax. In fact, there’s a lot at stake here, possibly even more then you might think.

Suppose you’ll ask for her number. She will not only give it to you, but she’ll be horrified. (You were aware that she was only friendly and flirty to you because the pitied you, right? Or perhaps the situation is even more grave, and she was only being nice to you so as to trap you, and be able to point and laugh all the better. Yeah, she has been setting up that trap for months now, so that should tip you off as to how determined she is to assure your social downfall.

Not only that, but once you’ve asked for your number and she has turned you down as cruelly as she can, (you might want to disable the intercom first, though, you’ll never know how she might use it) she’ll send out the message through the Attractive Girls Network. (Yes, I know you thoought those were telephone wires. They aren’t) Every single attractive girl around the world (yes, the AGN went global a while ago) will know of your defeat, and will have marked you as a Permanent Loser. Or Creep. Both are social death sentences, and they will last the rest of your life. You will *never *have the chance to ask another girl out after this, you know that, right? Better to prepare this one more carefully. There must be something else you can do to make this occasion more likely to succceed. After all, you have only been thinking about this every minute at work for the past week; I would hardly call that enough planning or preparation.

Good luck. You’ll need it.

9

‘course, Argent! It’s that time o’ the year again. Tell me more, tell me more, was it love at first sight? Tell me more, tell me more, did she put up a fight? Uh-huh-uh-huh-uh-huh-uh-huh!

I wonder… was there ever a time when this whole dating thing was actually straightforward? When courtship was a ritual and not the awkward ambiguity it now is?

And Ship of Dreams: Do it, dude. You only live once. As you said yourself, even a certain rejection would be better than never knowing. Good luck :slight_smile:

10
11

You decided that she rejected you based on one fleeting expression, which you may or may not have interpreted correctly? Quit it. Stop thinking so much and tormenting yourself, and just ask for her number and ask her out for coffee.

(I once was quite interested in a guy, but unfortunately he only seemed to get interested in girls once they were dating someone else and nicely unattainable. He was quite shy, but you know what, we were all nice girls and good friends and we wanted to date him. It was an infuriating habit; he finally indicated interest in me once I’d started dating my now-husband. He did eventually get married, but I don’t quite know how.)

12

Yes, during the Middle Ages.

13

Ah! The eternal dichotomy. Every response will be ‘You’re overthinking this. Just ask for her number/ask her out/just speak to her.’ That’s the correct answer. It’s very easy for us to give, and, I appreciate, very hard for you to take. I’m sure that if you felt you could, you would already have done just that.

As was said in this and the other thread: what’s the worst that can happen? Her turning you down? That’s already happened in your head. And her turning you down will give you the closure you say you want. But, you know what? She might say yes. Don’t wait for the right moment - just do it. I know - easier said than done. But it is the only way.

14

What ever you do, don’t be yourself.

15

To be fair, he was driven to elation only an hour prior because she smiled at him, and he didn’t just decided he was rejected, he became depressed and had chest pain from the anxiety.

I really hope this doesn’t sound mean, Ship Of Dreams, but neither of those are remotely proportionate emotional responses to her subtle behavior - which may or may not have had anything to do with you. She’s just a human being like you and everyone else. Maybe the customer she helped right before she smiled at you had an adorable baby and it made her smile. Maybe the customer right before her unfriendly goodbye called her a bitch.

You can’t go through life having wild emotional swings based on fleeting encounters with women that may or may not have anything to do with you.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but this is not a complicated situation. You’re grasping at moonbeams and rainbows expecting them to be substantial. Even if at times she is “almost certainly flirtatious” it doesn’t mean anything. I flirt with every woman I meet. It doesn`t mean I want to date them. Just ask her out.

16

You’re not ready for dating.

17

If you never ask, you will never get a date. If she says no what is the big deal?

18

In all these threads, the responses are always the same. We know what should be done. The OP, and all the others like him, I’m sure, know that doing it, going for it, is what he should do. Their problem is, no matter how much they want to, they can’t. If they could, I’m sure they would have.

I think the OP’s attempts to bolster his self esteem through books or courses is commendable, and, if it works, may be a solution to his problem of lack of confidence.

Of course, if all it takes is to ask Dopers for the magic words, then we ought to start charging for our advice. We’d make a fortune :slight_smile:

19

I dont understand your claim that he can't ask a nice girl out. Could you elaborate on why so many people *can't* do normal every day things? I dont even understand what you mean in principle. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say it’s difficult or uncomfortable? Our advice is to just do it a few times so he gets used to it. That’s the best way to get over the anxiety. Saying “we understand you literally cannot do something, go read a book until you feel better about yourself” sounds very counterproductive to me.

For what it’s worth, my opinion is that he has wild mood swings in response to events that occurred almost if not entirely in his own head. I think it’s entirely unlikely he really “knows what should be done”.

20

Become her friend on Facebook. Then one day when her status is “bored. Anyone want to hang?” jump at the chance.