comment on "can you be atheist and still be jewish" article

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
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I would like to argue on both your definitions of what makes someone Jewish, and on your assertion that it is not inconsistent for an atheist to be Jewish.
When debating ideas regarding Judaism and theologically Jewish concepts, I do not think it is proper to use the definitions set by Hitler or anyone else who was or is so opposed to Judaism, but rather by the Torah’s definition of what makes someone Jewish because it is the guide for Judaism in the world. Leviticus 24,10 states that “ The son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel; and the son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp. This shows that according to the Torah, the offspring of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is considered part of the children of Israel in the same way that the offspring of a Jewish woman and a Jewish man is considered part of the children of Israel. Therefore, One is Jewish simply if his mother is Jewish, or he took the appropriate steps to convert into the religion.
The premise that “what makes someone Jewish is acceptance as Jewish by other Jews” is false. Is an isolated Jew unable to be Jewish if there are no other Jews there to confirm or accept him?! No, he is still Jewish. Even the adherence of Jewish practice does not qualify one as Jewish, and the lack thereof does not disqualify one from Judaism.
Although a person can convert to Judaism, it is a complex and precise process consisting of a Brit Mila for all men, immersion in the mikvah for both men and women, and a specific Bracha that must be said after the conversion ritual is complete. The mere act of beginning to follow Jewish costumes and practices, and even believing in Jewish values and ideas, does not actually make one Jewish for all intents or purposes, unless he has converted in the proper fashion. I would also like to note that although the “public affirmation of commitment” is becoming an increasingly popular tradition, it is not required in order to fully and completely convert to Judaism.
Although the Israeli government recognizes certain groups as “Jewish”, this does not necessarily qualify them as being Jewish in accordance with The Torah. Regarding the Law of Return amendment, 1970, The Israeli government recognizes the child of a Jew (even if only the father is Jewish), the grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, or the spouse of a child of a Jew, or the spouse of the grandson of a Jew. The political definition and recognition of a Jew does not necessarily mean that he is actually Jewish according to the definition and law of the Torah.
I do not want to argue with what is important and not important in Christianity because that is simply an area in which my knowledge is quite limited. However, your perception of what is important to Judaism is fundamentally incorrect. Belief and action are both supremely important in the Jewish religion. Your statement that “Abraham was not told to BELIEVE in God, but rather to walk with God” is absurd. How can someone fulfill a direct request of someone that he does not believe to exist? However, I can’t argue with you that in Judaism “doing the right things for the wrong reasons still means you’ve done the right thing.” I don’t think that it is the best way to do the right things but it is still considered as if you did them. In Gemara (Talmud) Nida 61a, God tells Moses not to fear battle with enemy giant of Israel, Og, king of Bashan. The Gemara asks “Why was Moses afraid of Og?” The answer is that, when Lot, Abraham’s nephew, was captured in battle, Og ran to Abraham in order to tell him the news so that Abraham could go and save his nephew’s life. The Gemara explains that although Og ran to Abraham and told him about Lot only so that Abraham would die in the war and then Og could take Abraham’s wife, his actions actually resulted in the saving of Lot’s life and were therefore good. Moses was afraid that because of the great merit of saving Lot’s life, Moses would not be able to defeat Og in Battle. This gives great credit to the statement that in Judaism “doing the right things for the wrong reasons still means you’ve done the right thing.” However, the Gemara continues and states that God said to Moses “don’t be afraid” and Moses jumped up and struck Og in the ankle, and Og fell and died. This shows that good actions without good intentions to back them up are not as good as good actions with good intentions.
Furthermore, Judaism is not only about actions, but it is about believing in God as well. The first of the Ten Commandments, the foundations of Judaism, is “I am your God…. Thou shalt have no other gods, aside from me.” Other foundations of Judaism include “know before who you stand” (referring to God) and “Love God with all your heart and all your soul.” The Shema, The most famous Jewish Phrase, “Listen O Israel, God is our master, God is One.” The belief in the existence of God is so intertwined with the practice of Judaism that it is impossible for Judaism to be practiced without a belief in God.

I would like to conclude by noting that If one is born Jewish and decides that God does not exist, the Jewish religion does not offer a way to convert out so technically he would have to remain Jewish while being an atheist, thereby making him a Jewish atheist. However, it is impossible for an atheist to truly practice Judaism.

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Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, TIFAEA, we’re glad to have you with us. For future ref, when one starts a thread, it’s helpful to other readers to provide a link to the column/staff report in question. Saves searching time and helps (mostly) keep us on the same page. In this case, I assume it’s a Staff Report that I wrote some time ago: Can you be an atheist and still be Jewish? - The Straight Dope

Now, thanks for your interesting comments. As I said in the staff report, it’s all definitional. And please note, there is a difference between “practicing” Judaism and “being” Jewish. I very carefully refrained from discussing what it means to “practice” Judaism, because that’s a different definitional problem.

This is a problem that Judaism has that other religions don’t, because it is both a religion and a people/ethnicity.

The question that was posed that led to the Staff Report was not about practice, but about belief. Quick example: there is a humanist synagogue near us, where the services do not mention God or the Sh’ma, but they claim to be Jewish. They’re pretty much atheists, but claiming to be Jewish. And most of the congregants would be born of Jewish mothers, and so Jewish by your biblical definition.

There’s no one, single definition of Judaism that everyone in the world accepts. Yes, there are some people that would be Jewish under any reasonable definition, but there are lots of people who are Jewish by one definition but not another – e.g., most Orthodox Jews don’t recognize a conversion performed by Conservative rabbis (let alone Reform rabbis.) And you rightly note the difference between the political definition (the law of the State of Israel) and the Orthodox religious definition.

I stick by my definition that being Jewish means being accepted by other Jews as Jewish. You state:

You make the a priori definition that he’s Jewish but isolated. But by whose definition? I point to a man living on an isolated farm in rural Montana, and ask you: is he Jewish? You don’t know, you need more information to apply your definition. And that’s what I meant. There’s not a universal definition (as, for instance, whether he’s male.) And your definition could be different from my definition.

You (rightly) note that someone born of a Jewish mother is Jewish, which accords with Orthodox and Conservative definitions but not modern Reform definitions. And then: how do you know your mother was Jewish? How do you know her mother was Jewish? You take it on say-so. No one has genealogical charts that trace back to Jacob.

It’s just not that simple. My staff report also mentioned the Ethiopean Jews, who were defined as “Jewish” under Israeli law because they were persecutef for being Jewish, and so were brought to Israel for safe haven. Don’t look too hard into their ancestry, and don’t judge their practices before they educated in Israel, or your strict definitions will creak at the edges.

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TIFAEA, although I agree with you that in order to be jewish one must either have a jewish mother or have gone through the proper steps to convert into the religion, I think you are forgetting that your definition of what it means to be a “practicing jew” is purely based off of the environment you grew up in or the type of jew you choose to be. Judaism is not an all or nothing type of thing. One can still practice Judaism by only doing some of the commandments and mitzvoth. It is clear that people are not perfect and cannot do all of the commandments. If one does not believe in god he can still keep kosher and keep shabbos and be considered a practicing jew. I understand that you believe that believing in god is the basis of the religion but I don’t think that it is a requirement to be a practicing jew. Believing in something which has absolutely no proof of existence is very difficult, and from personal experience i know that people struggle with this concept all throughout their lives. Lets say you believed in god at one stage in your life and don’t in another, you don’t change any of your habits meaning you still keep kosher and shabbos. You are technically still doing mitzvot as a practicing jew. As long as you fit the criteria of being jewish, hold by that title, and do the physical mitzvot you are a practicing jew. Being spiritually connected with god means different things to different people so it cant be a requirement to be considered a practicing jew. Therefore if one happens to be jewish and still keeps kosher and shabbos, yet doesn’t believe in god, that person is an atheist practicing jew.