I have never heard a Benghazi conspiracy theorist give a satisfactory reason as to why Obama or Hillary would want to deny military assistance to a U.S. consulate under attack in Libya. I am not referring to people who criticize the lack of adequate security or the long distance of supporting US forces, but rather, those who claim that there was a “stand-down order” to specifically get the ambassador and other US folks killed. The attributed motive seems to be that Obama or Hillary specifically wanted to see US folks get killed by the attackers that day, but no one has ever given a logical reason why.
On the issue of abortion, there are folks who claim that some men oppose abortion because they want women to suffer the consequences of sexually promiscuous behavior and that allowing a woman to get an abortion would be “letting her off the hook” for casual sex, or something like that. But oftentimes, it isn’t in the husband’s/boyfriends/man-in-question’s interests for the pregnancy to be carried to term, either. Oftentimes, in the case of teenage pregnancies, the father-to-be has just as negative feelings of shame, dread or regret about the unwanted pregnancy as the mother-to-be. From many viewpoints, it isn’t in the interest of men for an unwanted pregnancy to be carried to term any more than it is in the interest of women. So the idea that men want to punish women for having sex, by forcing them to carry the pregnancy to term, often doesn’t make sense.
There are surely many other such examples - for instance, “the war in Iraq was for oil (why would the US spend thousands of lives and trillions of dollars on Iraqi oil when it would have been far cheaper and easier to just drill more at home?)” and also examples from fiction and cinema - a lot of characters in movies and books do things with motives that don’t make much sense. Any others?
The people who make this argument never faced the choice. Either they had no premarital sex, or it never led to pregnancy, or they just walked away. In any case, for someone who thinks there should only be sex within a marriage certainly have argued that the woman should suffer for her promiscuity.
In the cases you mention, you are presuming the “commonly attributed motives” that are not expressed by the people who are in reality making these arguments. This is the strawman fallacy.
The Benghazi accusation is not based on a logical motive but rather primarily accusing Clinton of incompetence and indifference.
The argument goes that some people oppose abortion out of a desire to control women and how they reproduce. The argument is not aimed at individual fathers-to-be but rather a male-dominated society as a whole. You are making a double-strawman argument here: The original argument can be denounced as strawman, and you are further defining what that strawman argument is, creating your own strawman.
I once read a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune in which the (male) writer stated that abortion should be illegal because women should have to pay for their promiscuous sex.
At the time, something about how it was worded made me pause. Most people who are against legalized abortion also tend to proclaim that “children are a gift from God.” It seems to me that if you really believe children are a gift, then the pregnancy should be considered a reward for the promiscuous sex.
Most people I know who oppose abortion simply believe that a human is being murdered. Nothing less and nothing more.
A person can oppose abortion based on the belief it’s murder. Simultaneously, they can also believe that abortion lets people (usually women) off the hook for their choices, thereby enabling promiscuity.
Guess which belief they’re more like to express out loud?
The one where it’s murder?
Regards,
Shodan
The Gubmint is hiding evidence about UFOs is my favorite.
“The war against Marijuana was due to hemp paper competing with wood pulp” . Wrong.
There are some spectacular examples in the James Bond films. Drax’s plan in Moonraker is to wipe out all human life on earth while he and a select few are safely in orbit to start over. How do you get people on earth to help with that? Or in The Living Daylights a Soviet general gets his girlfriend to aim a sniper rifle out a window at him to make his defection look more real. What did he tell her she was doing that for?
I have similar questions for those who believe the Kennedy assassination was a conspiracy. Most seem to think that Oswald was just a patsy. Really? What did they tell him in order to get him to bring a bag of curtain rods to work that day, or to run out of the building just after the shots were fired, or any of the other things that we know he did?
So, you are admitting that they say out loud that they consider it murder, while their real reason is that they wish to punish women for being promiscuity?
Obama is pro-gay, but a secret Muslim. They hate Obama for being a dictator, but love Putin for being, well… a dictator.
Many people who have had abortions oppose abortion. When questioned on this their response is that “The only moral abortion is my abortion.” It’s an actual thing.
This all devolves pretty quickly into name-calling, alas, but here’s one example:
A lot of gun-rights enthusiasts accuse gun-control advocates of wanting to “disarm” Americans. Some go so far as to say, “So it’ll be easier for the government to control everyone.”
The real reason is wanting to reduce the danger and likelihood of gun violence.
Also (and this is a bit dated, as the guy is far less relevant than in the past) any time – ANY TIME – Rush Limbaugh ever said, “What these people really want…” it was a straw-man fallacy (and outright lie.)
It seems to me that forcing a pregnant teen to carry to term impacts both people since the man will have to pay support. In the olden days there would be a shotgun wedding. I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that some people believe it is god’s punishment for promiscuity.
To change the subject slightly, my wife is strong supporter of pro-choice but feels that she, personally, could not have had an abortion. Logical? Probably not. A common feeling? Probably.
Actually I dont think so. Gun Control in America seems to have no significant effect on violent crime.
I think it is mostly a fear of guns and a lack of understanding of why people could want things like “assault weapons”. And especially why they would want a dozen or more.
Statements like “a gun’s only purpose is to kill another human…”
Totally logical. She has decided what she wants to do with her body, but is unwilling to force that choice upon other women.
That’s my position. I am pro-life, in that I would never get an abortion. (I’m a guy, of course.)
But, seriously, if asked my opinion or advice, I would strongly advise against it. If it were of my issue, I would feel the need to give that advice, even if not asked. I do not know that a relationship would survive an abortion.
But, that’s me, personally, and as far as I am willing to “enforce” my views upon others.
I am very pro-choice when it comes to other people, as I cannot say that if I came to the same place by the same path, I would not make the same decision, so I don’t feel I have the right to make that decision for others. By that token, I don’t think you (all y’all) have that right either.
The cure for cancer either already exists or is just a research paper or two away, but the pharmaceutical companies and doctors don’t want to lose all that lucrative chemo money.
This motive, I think, actually makes sense. It’s clearly false, but at least the logic, as outlined, makes sense, if chemo, etc. could make healthcare providers more money than simply curing cancer outright.