Complaint against samclem

The BBQ Pit
121

Google is God. Don’t piss Her off. :slight_smile:

(that was the original title of the article, but the guys at web pages that suck changed it.)

In any case, I still do not see any good evidence to show that a famous atheist was a hand stabber, if you can not find were it came from, the best solution is to say “I was wrong”. I see you made mention that you would not use that line anymore, but the reason for it doesn’t seem to be because you are aware of how un-sourced it is.
…
Speaking of atheists I can not let go away the chance to say that I see a pit thread on the Tillmans (and the Flying dutch should notice that **Evil one ** was not banned for it) that is showing to me that yes, it is true: American people can not handle the truth that men of faith lied to them by saying that there were no atheists in foxholes or that atheists could be incapable of being patriots. (take that Bush senior!)

Unlike the Hand-stabbing item, there is evidence that that smear came from WWII from journalist Ernie Pyle and it is possible it was used infamously by chaplains in the armed forces.

And looking at the link it is notorious that the mainstream media has had a hand in keeping current this “no atheist in foxholes” smear; liberal media, my ass.

122

Or ability.

You forgot the part where I am followed around by idiots claiming that I only post one- or two-line drivebys. By which they meant “those portions of Shodan’s posts that I was able to read before coming across a concept that is beyond my intellectual grasp”.

Regards,
Shodan

123

Well, that was a three liner, I grant you that.

Disregards,
Ed.

124

Congratulations, you got all the way to the end.

Regards,
Shodan

125

“In the end?” Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends…

-Dr Manhattan, Watchmen.

126

Solution? What’s the problem?

I haven’t used it in* more than four years*. I said back then where I thought I remembered it from: a talk radio show in Charlotte in the early to mid 1980s. I believe the call letters were WSJS (AM). I believe the guest was O’Hair’s son. It was also during that same show that a woman called in and told the man that he would know the love o’ Jesus when he was burning in Hell. That’s all I got. :stuck_out_tongue:

ETA: I think the DJ’s name was Pomerantz.

127

IIRC the remaining son hated the guts of MMO, (By the same token, I’m not willing to take the bile the estranged son of L. Ron Hubbard mentions now as good evidence) but you should notice that even there, it would be likely that it was one of the callers that mentioned that, so I still have to think the line originated from somewhere else.

128

Case in point.

I don’t claim that you never were an articulate and interesting poster, just that those days seem to have largely passed into curt bitterness and contempt.

129

Here’s my apology, such as it is.

I apologize to Scylla and the membership for rasing the question the way I did. It was a question from me as a poster, never me as a moderator. I was involved reading the thread in question as a poster, not as a moderator. Somewhere in the recesses of my brain I remembered a thread(s) in which Scylla admitted that he was not above posting things to the board which he knew to be untrue. It was almost certainly in those threads in which he and xenophon41 were going at it, some of which no longer exist. The later discussion between them refer to earlier threads.

So, while I"m reading a thread in which Scylla lists as a possible position in the war in Iraq the complete anihilation of the entire nation, I wonder if he really means it. As a viable option?

So, remembering the old threads, I searched. I really did quite a bit. And then, I simply posted my query in that thread. I probably should have used other terminology than “trolled the boards.” I honestly thought Scylla might be posting his views on the war in Iraq and the possibility of totally wiping out the Nation as a device. I thought he couldn’t possibly mean such a thing. Maybe he was just using this to get a rise out of posters. Trolling.

Scylla is not, nor has he ever been a “troll” as we generally know and use the word on this board. He wouldn’t do that.

So, I was wrong to use the phrase I did. I regret it.

130

The contempt you mention is for the garbage you post, Apos.

Let’s take a simple example. Read my last fifty posts, in this thread and elsewhere. How many of them are less than two lines? Did you respond to any of those that aren’t? Did you even read them?

You want more of a response, post something that merits it.

I write a whole essay detailing my views on this whole piece of nonsense. One of the moderators responds with a two-line post, and one of the lines is “fuck you, shithead”. And yet you show up with the same stupid lie about how I only do drive-bys.

If you can’t respond to anything substantive, then don’t waste your time complaining that I don’t give you enough of it.

Regards,
Shodan

on preview - Well done, samclem. Go, and sin no more.

131

Shodan, you really are a funny little guy. You amuse me so.

132

You realize, of course, that we will never,* ever*, hear the end of this.

133

Not really. The current trend in the demographics of the board is a direct result of the way in which dissenting opinion is handled. It’s a decidedly unfriendly place for non-leftists and more and more they are leaving.

I’m still here because me versus 10-20 is a fair debate. :slight_smile:

Shodan is right. He is treated differently by the moderators mainly because of his political stripe. You, or Frank or tomndeb will cut at him openly for relatively minor things while you seldom will conflict with or call names to some of the really openly hostile and insenstate types of your own political stripe.

No matter how much you would like to pretend that their is a time when you are posting as poster and a time when you are posting as a moderator, and that these two are distinct, it is simply not so. There is overlap. If one is openly hostile to Shodan as a poster and then you have to chastise him as a moderator he and others may legitimately question how much of an overlap there is.

It always says “moderator” under your name, and you are always representing the board. Your behavior should reflect this. You should act responsibly.

This board is a product for which people pay and it is a business. In no reasonable business is it permitted for staff to be abusive to their paying customers. You guys should know this without being told. When your rude and uncivil to any customer you are setting policy whether you like it or not. The community looks to you as an example, and when you rub somebody under your foot, you’re declaring open season on that person. When you are rude and uncivil you’re setting the tone for this board.

You are staff, and you should act like it.

Samclem’s actions demonstrate this clearly. A nonmoderator could not post what he did, and create a resulting crash in the boards. His actions are beyond the pale of what is appropriate for a person with “moderator” beneath his name.

As a staff member he accused me of admitting to a bannable offense in a pit thread about me where my arguments were being clearly misrepresented. He should not have fanned the fire of vitriol and character asassination by posting such a lie.

It was so obvious and stupid what he did, that I was basically positive that he would simply show up and retract his statement with an apology. What he said was a lie, but even if it wasn’t and he had a cite at hand, that’s what he should have done. Regardless of his intent (and I think his intent was to solicit evidence to get me banned) going about it this way, enouraging the attacks and soliciting help in searching for past offenses with a poster he may disagree with is blatantly abusive of his status as staff.

His efforts resulted in the board crashing.

He has yet to either support his statement or apologize, as he said he would. An apology at this point would be worthless. He did something wrong and stupid and unsupportable with the idea in mind that if he got called on it and was forced to, he could always apologize.

If you do something wrong with the plan that you’ll apologize if you get caught, that apology cannot be sincere or worth anything.

I’ve had no major past personal issue with samclem that I can recall and I have no hostility towards him, but I think that based on this issue and this issue alone he should be removed as a moderator of this board. He’s simply demonstrated that his judgement isn’t up to the task. I ask that that be done.

I’d also suggest the rest of you guys have a bit of a reality check. Is it really in the best interest of the board as a community and a business to allow the staff to be openly and selectively hostile to paying customers based on their personal taste?

This place has become extremely hostile and full of vitriol. Shouldn’t the staff be setting the tone, leading by example and working to make this place pleasant and enjoyable for all who pay to be here?

I suppose that there are a few people here who would not like this if this happened, as it seems that their primary purpose is to attack other people in the strongest and most hateful way possible. I’d suggest that the number of people who are here for that purpose is larger than it used to be.

Is this board for them, or is it an open community for those who wish to discuss and debate and share ideas?

It can’t be both.

134

I took one for the team.

135

Are you sure? How many people searching about you would it take to crash the boards?

(oh, and nice rebuttal btw)

136

Er, I realize that by dwelling on “no atheists in foxholes” I’m throwing this discussion even further off-course, but in the interest of accuracy I have to note that the above Wikipedia page certainly contains a few errors, including the reliance on Pyle as the originator of the observation.

First, I’ve never found where Pyle is supposed to used this saying before May of 1943 (and even then he quotes someone else). Second, while the origin of the expression is commonly placed to the defense of Bataan in the spring of 1942 (and it certainly was used there), there’s evidence that an earlier form was in use by the end of WWI.

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0609d&L=ads-l&P=15696

(Finally, “Wake Island” didn’t premiere until late summer of 1942, well after the expression that “there are no atheists in the foxholes” made it out of Bataan and into the pages of American newspapers.)

Um, carry on.

– Tammi Terrell

137

I never, as a staff member, accused you of anything. As a poster, I was searching for a thread which seems to not exist anymore.

Again, I had no intent to have you banned. Plainly rhetorical excess on your part. My query was as a member.

And, you know this HOW?

I won’t retract my apology. You can always ignore it.

Simulpost on my part and yours.

I disagree strongly with your opinions, which I have (selectively) quoted above.

138

Told you so. “This way lies madness”, I said. Don’t go up the stairs. Don’t open that door. Told you. Wouldn’t listen. Don’t feed the Scylla, I said. Told you so.

139

It said “moderator” under your name when you did it. As I’ve pointed out, your distinction is fictitious.

Because it never happened.

That’s not what it says under your name. And, I find that hard to beleive. I can’t imagine what possible other use you might have for that imaginary post that justifies the effort.

It seems pretty obvious. Right after you insisted that it existed and would find it, people started looking and posting what they came up with to this thread. The board went down coincident with this, and when it came back up again Jerry had said that he was disabling searches because they were being abused.

I suppose it’s possible there was a denial of service attack from another quarter simultaneous with your soliciting people to search my past posts, but Occam’s razor dictates the simple explanation is more likely.

It doesn’t really matter. I will always accept a sincere apology, but that doesn’t look like what you made. You can’t do something wrong with the idea beforehand that you will apologize if you get caught (which is basically what you’d do at the outset of this thread.) You still seem to think that this posts happened just that it “doesn’t exist anymore,” so what on earth are you actually apologizing for?

Telling elucidator that you’re just “taking one for the team,” doesn’t exactly lend credibility to the sincerity of your apology, and I don’t see how an insincere one helps anything.

I don’t care if you retract it or not. It has no value.

140

Let’s just drop it and close the thread. If you want the last word it’s all yours.