This is in response to this post, in a now-locked thread.
I thought I was being careful to attack the post, not the poster. I said, IOW, “you are being dishonest and stupid” with the implied addition of “in your post”. Not “you are dishonest and stupid”.
If I was not careful enough, I apologize to you as mod and to Scott Plaid, but ISTM that this would have been OK in GD. Am I just not used to the standards in MPSIMS? Or was it the context of the thread?
I am not questioning your judgement, and if there is no more way to explain it than “a judgement call by a mod”, so be it.
I wouldn’t have let you get away with “You are being dishonest and stupid” in GD. Given the important of the difference between attacking the post and attacking the poster, you had best make it crystal clear you are talking about the post.
Shodan, I understand where you’re coming from. If you’d been a bit more careful, like saying something along the lines of “Your dishonest and stupid post…” then you’d probably have been in like Flynn.
As it is, I wish that Skip could’ve happened to have been looking the other way at the time… but you know our mods. Jackbooted fascists to the bitter end
I’d also like to say that the OP you were responding to is probably one of the most cowardly and slimey misuses of MPSIMS I’ve ever seen.
Finn, I believe you are dead wrong with some situations, such as with Elvis. However, I also believe you are right some of the time. Thus, your opinion carries more weight with me then with Shodan, who I believe to be a mindless bush-apologist.
That being said, I can almost see where you are coming from, except that I was not trying to pit Shodan without being insulted, but simply post about a behavior I have seen exhibited before. Thus, I will take this moment to restate my OP from before, in a way many are likely to understand.
Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh. I don’t like what goes on in GD. People talk nice to each other, then people read a minor point, and hi-jack it because they read it as hatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebushhatebush, rather then what it actually said, which is “I think bush was wrong to do (blank) because of (blank)”
In short, everywhere you go, people will read statements while wearing blinders, then accuse the other side of wearing blinder. Even my post is a case in point.
Oy vey. You mean the time where wring and I took him to task for essentially making up a quote? Besides, as I pointed out in that thread, I don’t have any problems with Elvis and was more than happy to let the matter drop at the end of the thread.
Point of order: Whatever else he is, Shodan is not mindless.
Scott… you weren’t trying to Pit anybody, but you were talking about a behavior on the boards which pissed you off? Come on. Play straight with us now.
You fucked up. The place to post about problems you’re having on the boards with various opinions is the Pit. You know that, and if you don’t, you should. Just apologize and learn from your mistake. Dopers generally respect someone who can admit when they’re wrong and learn from it.
And those sentiments don’t belong solely in the Pit? Come on. Even as a restatement, if you meant anything close to that, you should’ve posted in the Pit.
He said he was sure of something. You said while he is likely to be correct, he should not have called it a know fact, just something very likely. There was stuff in there about him not producing a link he said he saw, true, but it kept on coming back to “likely” vs. “true.” Kinda like what I was saying in the OP of the thread under discussion.
Cite? All the thread I see him in, he posts easily refutable strawmen, never talks about culture, or his favorite book, or anything. Just about how the current president is completely right. He may have done so in the past, but while I read old threads, I have yet to see evidence of this.
That is right. Last time I talked about a specific behavior that affected lots of people, I got a large amont of posts saying I was so fucking wrong., and a few agreeing with me. I figured since the behavior is shown in places in RL, the fluffy crowd of Misc. might be able to provide similar examples. GD problem have been discussed before in places besides the Pit, or GD.
Can you please elaborate? I don’t understand what you mean.
~le sigh~
No. I said that the situation was likely, the quote was flat out untrue. I gave numerous examples to highlight exactly why this was the case, pointing out that there’s a huge difference between something happening, and someone saying “this is what happened and I did it.”
Which belonged in the Pit.
No.
I believe he is wrong. I believe he comes to conclusions which are wrong. I believe he holds axioms which are wrong. But he is an intelligent poster. And that’s the last I’m saying on that.
Like where? Show me an OP where someone was complaining about behavior in GD outside of the Pit and chances are I’ll show you a post that the Mods missed. Skip made it rather clear for you. If you’re going to make posts like that, use the Pit.
Welcome to the Dope.
Come on. You honestly think that just because it happens in meatspace it can go in MPSIMS? So a rant on how stupid group X is for saying thing Y can go in MPSIMS just because people may’ve seen it in real life?
Did it ever occur to you to ask yourself why the disproportion in the responses?
And I am trying hard not to interpret the above as “Last time I shot my mouth off, I got slapped down hard. So I thought I would try it in a forum where I could get away with it.”
I don’t want to hijack my own thread by flaming you too hard, so methinks I will await your response, if any. You want to call me out for something you don’t like, you are now in the forum where such things are done.
Not really. After all I “know” I am right about my comments in Hacker v. cracker. However, I received no positive responses till hours into the thread, and even the next day. Had my thread remained open, I am sure more people who read and understood the op would have posted, later this evening.
Here is one. I am annoyed with a behavior. Not annoyed enough to pit it, though. I will comment on it in a place where people discuss things without reverting to insults. Then, when people asked for clarification, I linked to a problem behavior of yours. You act like people are filled with an all-consuming, irrational hatred of bush, rather then hating him cause of his actions. Sure, I was annoyed at your claiming this, but it may have just been someone else, since I see this same disingenuous claim being made wildly by others.
Well, I just did, thought it isn’t very angry or ranting.
I know that Gaudere has already said it, but I think it bears repeating: the line between insulting a post and a poster is pretty thin, so it’s best to avoid the doubt, leave out the implications and let the readers know what you’re doing.
Scott, your votes will probably coincide with my votes 95% of the time, and my votes will coincide with Shodan’s maybe 5% on the time, but he’s right on this count. Namely:
Unless you’re prepared to refer to a specific lie via cites, you DO need to qualify your statements.
Your backhanded pitting of him seemed dishonest and stupid.
Personally, I think the evidence is overwhelming that Bush engaged in a sustained campaign of deception regarding WMDs in Iraq, but was very careful never to utter an actual, proveable lie. He only fucked up once, in a claim about the yellowcake document, and in that instance he inadvertantly said something untrue in an effort to deceive the public. Since lying has two components (saying something untrue in an effort to deceive), he managed to tell a lie here without quite meaning to. Quite a feat. There was a thread about six months ago IIRC that ended with everyone, Republicans included, conceding that this was a lie on Bush’s part; the discussion moved on from there to whether it was a justifiable lie.
what LHOD said. Scott Plaids thread to me was clearly a direct personal problem with another poster. where Shodan erred is in his response, he should have posted that response in the pit, and in the thread merely linked to it. FWIW (probably none), I saw the original thread as a more egregious error.
Signed-
founder of “LIberal but not a fucking lunatic Society”
I find threads like this to be rather bracing, and affirming of my efforts at taking things at face value and not being blinded by my personal politics. Specifically, in this case I can say with head held high that while at minimum I disagree with Shodan on just about any political issue that you would care to name and while my politics probably tend to align much closer to those of Scott Plaid, at the end of the day I would have to say that one Shodan is probably worth 50 Scott Plaids in terms of value added to this board.
Scott, your impenetrable writing style would be annoying enough on its own merit, but the sheer volume of it combined with your dishonest backhanded Pitting in the wrong forum is an embarrassment to those of us who do align with your politics. Otaku, from your profile, seems all too fitting.
For fuck sake man, we are under siege enough with the way that things are going in this country without having to worry about the folks that are supposed to be in our camp acting like monkeys flinging shit.
I’m sure glad you put the word know inside quotation marks to indicate its ironic use. You were, in fact, wrong both in your history of the word (demonstrating ignorance of etymology) and in your attempt to provide a prescriptivist definition in the face of overwhelming evidence against you (demonstrating an ignorance of language usage). We’re here to fight ignornace, not support it.
(Of course, this is exactly the sort of behavior that prompted the other thread currently running with your name on it, but I fear that you will not take the messages provided by these experiences.)
Given the important of the difference between attacking the post and attacking the poster, you had best make it crystal clear you are talking about the post.
