Since we’re talking safety. I sent my dad a link to this hangfire accident for his Hunter Safety classes several years ago.
This guy came within inches of losing his head. Instead his hat will never be the same.
Can’t have that video without the “I am the only one in this room…that I know of…professional enough to carry the Glock foty!”
I know it was his fault, but I can’t help but feel somewhat bad for that guy. I heard the notoriety he received from the video pretty much destroyed his career in LE.
+1
The problem with that sort of homily, as flattering an idea as it is, is that the thing between your ears is exactly what you can’t count on in a hyper-stressful situation. Training can ameliorate this problem, but never eliminate it. A well-made mechanism, though, you can depend on in all environments. Thus, while it’s all well and good to say you should keep your finger off the trigger, and an excellent idea to practice it, there’s no amount of willpower or training that dictates exactly how you’ll perform under stress.
Vrooooooom! Screech!
POP POP-POP POP
VROOOOOOOOMMmmmm…
I understand what you’re saying. But if stress can cause a person to put their finger on the trigger before they’re ready to shoot (an argument for an external safety), stress can also make a person forget to actuate the safety (an argument against an external safety).
So you have to ask yourself which is more likely if you are involved in a self-defense scenario: a) accidently squeezing the trigger while pulling your weapon from the holster, or b) forgetting to actuate the safety. For me, I believe b) is much more likely than a), hence I will not carry a handgun that has an external safety. If it’s your opinion a) is much more likely than b) for you, then an external safety would be appropriate for you.
There really is no factual answer for this, as it ultimately comes down to what makes you feel most comfortable, and your estimation of the odds of a) verses b).
Well said, Crafter_Man.
I shoot SIG Sauer pistols almost exclusively, and hate an external safety on a handgun. When the time comes, I think I am much more likely to forget to thumb off a safety than I am to fat-finger the trigger too early.
I recently started carrying the SIG P224 in .40. It has what they call a “DAK” trigger, which is Double Action Kellerman for the guy who invented it. It gives a consistent trigger pull for every round. The “DA” part is not quite as long of a pull as the DA on my other SIGs, but is easy to get familiar with. The gun is also surprisingly pleasant to shoot for a small .40.
I can endorse your reasoning above, with one caveat: one must consider not just which is more likely for them, a or b, but also how they can bear up to the relative potential consequences of each. That is to say, all else being equal, I’d rather have an extra moment before firing than fire unintentionally. While the former may endanger my life, the latter potentially endangers either myself (in the event of firing into my own leg), or someone whom I didn’t intend to shoot.
So, that is another factor that should be considered.
Wow. That is Weapons Grade Stupidity right there. What information could you possibly glean from looking down the barrel of any gun that just misfired?
It’s Commercial Strength for Deputy Donna that shoots the ground by the suspect.
I’ve been in high stress situations in which I have had to draw my weapon and point it at someone. My finger has never touched the trigger unless I intend to shoot. It muscle memory from a lot of practice. My finger is the best safety around. Haven’t had Ro shoot anyone yet.
I once had to draw my weapon and be within seconds of shooting someone. My finger was not on the trigger. Trained, intelligent people don’t necessarily go all gooey when the shit hits the fan. If they do, they should probably re-think the whole firearms thing.
That’s certainly a valid point, in that the consequences between a) and b) are quite different.
As mentioned, it ultimately comes down to what makes you most comfortable.
I have a friend who not only carries a CCW w/ external safety, but also refuses to carry a round in the chamber. If he is involved in a SD situation, he said he will remove his weapon, rack the slide, and then flip the safety off. I didn’t argue with him, but it’s my opinion he has absolutely no idea how stressful a person is in a SD situation, and how seemingly “little” things like racking a slide take *way *too much time. And that’s assuming he remembers to do it.
For me, I will never carry a CCW with an external safety, and I always have a round in the chamber. I’ve been shooting awhile, and trigger control has been permanently burned into my brain. So if I am ever involved in a SD situation, I am confident my finger will stay clear of the trigger until I’m ready to shoot. YMMV.
If I was going to concealed carry it would be a Glock, with proper trigger safety practices of course.
Just wanted to say that, if I got back into concealed carry, the Walther P99AS would be my daily carry. I have two in 9mm (what can I say? the second was going for a very good price, and I could…not…resist…) and one in .40.
Incidentally, if you like the Glock but can’t stand the lack of a manual safety, you can get one without doing any permanent modifications to the gun. I think it’s a pretty good compromise because if it’s necessary to pull the trigger your finger is already there. If you like the idea of a thumb safety, you can put one on as well at the cost of slightly modifying the frame (grinding out a slight notch in the frame for the switch).
Or, you can just get a Springfield XD (more or less an improved Glock with a grip safety) and save yourself the trouble.
Though it should be noted that grip safeties don’t prevent accidental discharges on the draw the way button/lever type safeties do.
Um, Post #11
Cool. I missed it. It didn’t hurt to repeat it.
My preferred CCW is an HK USP Compact in .45ACP. Thumb safety, DA/SA, and to me it just feels right and I’m accurate with it. Can be carried cocked and locked; has the same manual of arms as the M1911A1 and that’s what I grew up with, so I am comfortable with it. As for safeties, and the different trigger pulls with DA/SA, I’ll just say this: train, train, train. The only thing I don’t like is that it only carries 8+1 rounds. So, each shot needs to count (but when isn’t that true?).
Other preferred CCW options are a Ruger LCR in .38 sp (DAO) and an S&W J-Frame Model 638 Bodyguard also in .38 sp. That one is DA/SA and the SA trigger pull is light and short with a decent break. Both revolvers are very light and compact. And only 5 rounds each.