Let me explain the dimensions of the problem to you:
I can no longer use most all-purpose flour because it contains malted barley flour, and I am allergic to barley. So that nice, healthy bag of non-processed flour is off limits to me.
On the other hand, chicken McNuggets are still safe, even if highly processed.
It’s not about processed/non-processed, it’s about what’s in the food. Raw organic tomatoes are completely unprocessed yet they could kill me.
I’d prefer to eat “real food”, that is, with minimal processing, but if the only safe food allergy wise is the highly processed stuff (which just so happens to not contain what I’m allergic to) then that’s what I eat. Cause I really hate trips to the ER. But highly processed stuff has the upside over random stuff assembled by a neighbor because the highly processing factory actually list ingredients on the label (even if sometimes imperfectly) whereas who knows what the random neighbor is doing? I was almost killed once by an idiot who didn’t understand that “no tomato” means no ketchup either (Halloween Night, 1995, Rockford, Illinois).
The pitfall with the highly processed stuff is usually how many ingredients it contains, and that they’re permitted to say “colored with vegetable juice” without specify WHICH vegetable. Beets? That’s OK. Tomatoes? Deadly poison to me.
This is why when I travel I’ll live on chicken chunks and fries from fast-food places - it’s not health food but the consistency of such franchises is such that at least I know what I’m eating and no one is improvising in the kitchen.
So yes, this is in part yet another bitch about the allergies. If the diabetics can bitch about their problems I can bitch about mine.
Oh, I get it - hence my promotion of things like lentils I can no longer eat.
Yes. What about those of us who have trouble with most of the common substitutes for meat? Everything I’m allergic to comes from plants - putting me solely on a plant-based diet, especially given how a lot of vegetarian food is made, would put me in real danger of malnutrition.
Sometimes there is no item on the menu I can eat. That used to be the case with a little Mexican place my spouse liked to eat. I’d got with him and just have a beverage while he enjoyed the food there. I was OK with that, he was OK with that, but the rest of the world seems to have a really big problem with people who abstain while others are eating. I get that eating is a social occasion, but I have medical issue. I’m happy to go there and socialize with you, but apparently the lack of eating food that would make me seriously ill is too large a stumbling block for many.
There is a certain type of person out there - and if someone can come up with a succinct label I’d appreciate it - that wants everyone to become a vegan, to stop flying and driving, to basically do a whole list of things to save the planet.
But there’s no consideration for those who might have a need for those things.
What if you can’t remain healthy on a vegan diet due to a medical issue?
What if you’re paralyzed and need an electric wheelchair to get around?
Should we abolish medical flights and just let people die instead of flying them to urgently needed medical treatment or just not transport organ transplants anymore?
Sorry - like I said, I cut back on meat long ago, but I don’t see a way for me to give it up entirely without becoming seriously ill. If these folks get their agenda in place - which, admittedly, is unlikely - then I’m totally screwed. I support cutting back on things that harm the planet and our own long-term interests but not killing people while we’re doing it. I don’t think things are that level of desperate.
Also:
^ This. The promoters of this stuff are skirting the line of false advertising. I’m not a fan of false advertising.
It’s like “low fat”. If you just replace the fat with more sugar no it’s not healthier.
More or less. And I don’t like companies that promote highly processed junk as something “healthy” when it’s not.
Margarine is not healthier than butter or lard.
Unless you have a food allergy or celiac disease gluten is not harmful.
“Organic” is not inherently healthier or “better” however you care to define “better”
Some of it is just frustration with ignorance, fads, and false beliefs about food.
It’s not that I’m inherently opposed to “fake meat”, it’s that it’s being pushed as something inherently healthier and that’s not necessarily so. Nor am I convinced that a vegan diet is optimal for everyone, even if it is OK for many/most and might be the optimum for a select part of humanity - except I meet very few people who claim to be vegans who really seem to understand what a proper diet is.
Fake meat might well make up a part of a healthy diet, but it can’t be the whole of it. Trying to subsist on “plant burgers” and fries alone is no more healthy than trying to subsist on Big Macs and fries alone.
I though I explicitly said I don’t have a problem with people eating the way they want to eat. I don’t have a problem with people worshipping (or not) as they want, or voting the way they want, or any number of other things.
But I don’t have to agree with them even if I uphold their right to live as they want.
Well, if they do they should avoid oats - which means they should also be careful at one of our local coffee shops which is hyping that they’ll use oatmilk instead of animal milk if you want it. Not that I think they’re going to give up cow’s milk any time soon (too much demand for it) but if you have a bad allergy you might want to watch as your drink is being made just to make sure the barista doesn’t accidentally make a mistake.
That’s why I said options were great. People can eat all the fakeburgers they want, I get concerned when they scold me for eating meat (or animal products) and want me to switch.
^ This.
Since I have a problem with a lot of plant protein sources I’ll eat most of my meals with either dairy, eggs, or some sort of plant protein I can eat (there are some) with animal protein for my main meal 3-4 days a week. Which is substantially reducing my meat intake and carbon footprint, and better yet, I’ve been doing this for years.
I am on board with taking better care of the planet. I disagree that there is only one path to that goal. If everyone takes action, even if different actions, to reduce their environmental impact that will be a substantial improvement. Maybe someone who can’t at this point give up their energy-hungry commute will go full vegan, compost, and live in a tiny house that sips energy. Maybe someone else can go to public transportation, re-usable lunch wraps, and take some other action even if they don’t give up meat. Both parties reduce their impact, even if in different ways.
Yeah - two ounces of protein food is NOT a serving. A serving of protein is supposed to be around 3-4 ounces. That’s sizing the serving to meet some other goal, not anything like an actual serving someone would eat. They do that to hide just how loaded with fat/salt/whatever a food is.
Or grass-fed beef.
With a better financial situation I’ve been trying to upgrade the animal protein I eat. Like grassfed beef instead of corn-fed. Fish from sustainable fisheries (which often cost 150-200% or more of non-certified fish). That sort of thing.
^ This.
Yes, that’s a real risk for the allergic.
I am not, actually, the most hypersensitive person in regards to allergies. As annoying and difficult as things are for me they are much worse for some others.
^ This.
^ This.
I am very fortunate to not be allergic to soy. Very. Because it seems to be in every damn thing these days. Even so, I try not to overdo it. Variety is an important part of any diet. I can still eat chickpeas so I eat those. I can eat gluten-based substitutes. I can eat mycoprotein (Quorn). Also nuts, dairy, and eggs.
Regardless one should not get all of one’s protein from just one source if that can be avoided.
This.
Also, a lot of people just don’t know how to cook food they aren’t familiar with. Tofu, for example - there are many ways to prepare tofu, but all too often people new to it just don’t have any idea what to do with it.
It analogous to people who grew up eating just beef, pork, and chicken suddenly confronted with venison or hare or lamb - they don’t know what to do with it and often their first attempts don’t work out. You can’t cook venison the same way you cook beef. It’s not that one is better than the other, they’re just different.
So yeah, a company gives you a patty that looks like a meatburger, might even be carefully engineered to taste somewhat like a meatburger, but it will always be a substitute and not the real thing.
Frankly, if a vegetarian once in awhile “cheats” and eats a real meatburger, or a piece of sausage (my oldest sister was a vegetarian for her last few years, but on one occasion declared braunswieger an honorary vegetable and had some) I don’t care. I’ve known a couple of vegans who once every so often would have an egg or a bit of something else. So what? Humans are omnivores, after all. I’m not going to give them crap about it.
OK, let me clarify - I don’t care if other people eat it.
I do care that they might not be as knowledgeable about food and diet as they think they are but in real life I don’t attempt to “correct” them. It’s their business. Even if I think they’re wrong.
I do care about people campaigning to eliminate all non-vegan food because that’s imposing their beliefs/views/practices on other people.
Broomstick, I’m with you all the way. I don’t understand why we have to make food into fake meat products. When I went on a severely limited diet to try to identify allergens and sensitivities, this was a big issue with me. Yes, I like black bean patties, as long as I know what is in them. But the substitutes and the stuff that is only trace amounts can still affect me. The only thing I can really do to control it is make everything myself, from scratch. Like most of us, I don’t usually have time for that. Sigh. But the effort pays off. At least it has been several years now since a case of hives has landed me in the E.R. (Knock on wood.)
(And you attributed an awful lot of quotes to me that I didn’t write - I’m sure it was an error but I’m pointing that out in case others take issue with me on something I didn’t say.)
I think the point of suggesting unprocessed foods was because you mentioned how difficult it is for you to figure out what ingredients are in the various things you want to eat. The less processed something is, the easier it’s going to be to find out what’s in it.
That is, it’s going to be a lot easier to ask the waitstaff if their homemade soup has tomatoes in it than it is to ask them if their fake meat burgers are soy, wheat or pea protein based.
An impossible burger is not a garden burger, and to a non meat lover they prefer the taste of a garden burger over an impossible burger that tastes like a real whopper.
OF course there can be junk ingredients in convenience and packaged foods of any kind. The casual shopper may not pay close attention to labels and make assumptions about purity and sustainability of a product.
An impossible burger is not the same as their veggie burger (which has been discontinued AFAIK), and to a non meat lover they prefer the taste of a veggie burger over an impossible burger that tastes like a real whopper.
OF course there can be junk ingredients in convenience and packaged foods of any kind. The casual shopper may not pay close attention to labels and make assumptions about purity and sustainability of a product.
Please do not think that asking the waitstaff if their soup has tomatoes is going to be safe for someone for whom tomatoes might lead to death. In most cases in my experience the waitstaff has no idea what is in the food they serve if it’s not the “title” ingredient. This is not the fault of the waitstaff either; there are a lot of ingredients that hide in food. A friend of mine has a family member with violent allergy to corn, and she only learned lately that much if not most powdered sugar has cornstarch in it. Do you think the counter person at a bakery is going to know that there’s corn in the frosting?
This surprises me. I thought companies like Burger King, Carl Jrs, and Dunkin Donuts were aware of the dangers of feeding their customers allergens and made sure to train their employees on these issues.
Even if the company trains people individual employees may or may not give a damn.
In fact, major chains like McDonald’s and Dunkin Donuts do have a good consistency in menu and ingredients - as I mentioned, when I travel I go to McDonald’s not because it’s healthy or particularly tasty but because I know it is safe. In general national-level chains are pretty good about that.
It’s the local diner/greasy spoon that has the most pitfalls for me.
I’m very, very, very aware. I’ve been in the food business, literally, my entire life. In fact, I’ve been a Servsafe certified Food Manager for nearly 20 years.
Anyway, I agree with what you said. In fact, I’ve corrected my employees more times than I can think in pretty much that scenario. A customer will ask if a soup has [ingrediant] in it and they’ll say ‘ummmm, I don’t think so’. Then I have to explain to them that the answer is never ‘I don’t think so’, it’s either ‘yes it does’, ‘no it doesn’t’ or ‘let me go find out for you’. Sure, half the time they’re just curious, but often enough they’re asking because of an allergy.
In any case, that was just a random example I was tossing out because I thought it would make the point about ingredients being easier to find out on foods that are less processed. Something like homemade soup is going to have a handful of straightforward ingredients while something like vegetarian burger that they buy ready made, not so much.
Let’s be clear - I think that these are mostly gimmick foods. But these critiques still seems off the mark.
These are not foods being marketed as healthier for you than their meat alternative and few I think are buying an Impossible Whopper and thinking they are buying anything other than junk food.
They ARE being bought by people who DO want the form factor and flavor of the meat product and not someone looking for a lentil burger that tastes like veggies. That is what quite a few people want.
There is no question that the carbon footprint of say a Beyond Beef Burger is a fraction of a meat one.
IF someone has made an ethical decision to reduce or eliminate their meat consumption and they hav a hankering for the taste of a burger anyway, these things apparently do the trick for some people. If their ethical reason is mainly climate change motivated then they are inflicting much less environmental impact eating it than eating the same amount of beef. If major portions of the world population switched to significant degrees from meat to vegetable alternatives, be they these highly processed ones or less highly processed more real food choices, the planet would be healthier. If they chose more of the latter than the former they would be healthier too.
Those with serious food allergies always need to be careful. It is hard for them to order a burger out in any case because of the possibility of hidden ingredients. The ingredient list of these fake meat products though are at least available.
There are many foods our op cannot eat including some, maybe most, meat alternatives. She is therefore not part of their consumer base. I’m not for other reasons. The product is not the right choice for everyone but it is apparently finding those for whom it is.
Try being deathly allergic to mushrooms … and sensitive [roaring horrible diarrhea] to palm/coconut products. It seems like the nonmeat burgers are either umamiboosted with natural flavors that are frequently based upon mushrooms, contain shrooms, or get the unctuous juciness from palm oil. Or if they are pescitarian, umami boost with shellfish juice … which tends to make me projectile vomit.
And they perhaps want to cook their precious slabs of portobello ‘meat’ on the grill, and flip it with the same spatula/tongs … making everything poisonous for me. sigh
I tend to go to pot lucks with a huge tray of something I can eat, with serving tool and make sure that I get myself fed. I have actually packed myself my own brown bag lunch more than once …
Us allergy people have to self care - and that means being anal about ingredients and avoiding cross contamination.
I was the only nonvegan at work that had my own tofu press =) I adore my tofu press … I had those deep fried tofu cubes at a thai place almost 30 years ago and found them wonderful with a chili sauce boosted plum sauce and recently discovered how to make them in my air fryer =) I also had my own soy milk maker and made my own tofu [until the house burnt down , taking my kitchen toys with it =( ]
I have to say, I do like the challenge of meal planning for the assortment of dietary needs that pop up around the hollidays in our place. Omnivore, Omnivore but with allergies, omnivore with celiac, omnivore with corn allergy, vegan celiac, vegetarian cultist that doesn;t do onion/garlic/alliums… it gets fascinating =) I have served regular turkey, homemade tofu based turkey, seitan based turkey and an array of 5 different dressings at one meal =)
I see what you’re saying, but on the other hand a properly labeled commercially made “product” has all the ingredients on the label, down to those existing in minute quantities. With a home-made soup or stew, though, the person making it could add something and then forget about that pinch of this or that. Or, in the instance that nearly killed me in 1995, may not understand that “no tomatoes” would mean “no ketchup”.
I am, rightly so, paranoid about food. It gets frustrating and sometime it leads to semi-incoherent venting.
