Well, yes. The colors, tilting, placement in a circle, lack of dots, and pretty much every other aspect of the stylization is clearly intended to evoke the iconic Nazi rendering of the swastika, rather than a more innocuous traditional Indian rendering.
(However, the one on the girl’s shirt in the other link seems totally fine to me.)
Here’s an interesting end-of-the-line article on Lester Maddox from Creative Loafing (our corporate master). The article is from 1999. (I found it while googling to try to figure out what gonzomax was talking about.) The souvenir shop was opened by Maddox after he lost his last election in '74. It looks like it was a last ditch effort to cling to infamy/relevance.
This is a bizarre argument to make. The US movie and TV industries were highly racist during the 70s and 80s. They routinely trafficked in stereotypical and racist portrayals of black people (and other minorities). Yes, there were some groundbreaking shows and movies, but these were groundbreaking precisely because they were an attempt to break away from the standard portrayals. What you’ve done here is to try and use a racist industry as proof of non-racism. That doesn’t make any sense.
I’m from Texas, and I’m perfectly happy with my state flag (although I’ll note that a lot of Texans seem enthralled with the confederate flag). Why don’t you just fly your state flag?
And really, what is it that is supposed to make the “South” an identifying characteristic? I frequently hear references to “Southern culture.” But there are several distinct cultures in what we call the South with distinct origins (and some of those cultures, such as Appalachian culture extend into the North anyway). And some of these cultures are so distinct, that I have to wonder what exactly are the shared characteristics they are celebrating.
Is it geography? Because that seems to be an odd thing to celebrate (yay, I’m from East of the 16th parallel!)? Or is it the fact that they were all part of the Confederacy or that they all had governments which fought for segregation? Because the former strikes me as plain odd and the latter is offensive.
Paula Deen perhaps?
A flag with Paula Deen? Do we have to batter it and deep-fry it?
Last week, in my Canadian city in which there are only a handful of blacks, I saw a muddy Ontario pickup truck with a lift it and oversize tires flying from a stand mounted in the bed of the pickup. I took it to mean that the owner was a Bubba type, which I associate with being racist in general (i.e. racist toward other races, not just blacks). As a Bubba flag, it symbolizes racism by whites rather than a paticular region of the USA.
Well there was that husband and wife in Manitoba who had their child taken from them by the state, although the wife now blames it on the husband. Based on Arlo Gutherie’s theory of one person = sick, two people = faggots, three people = organization, and fifty people = movement, I think at most we might have an organization in which one third of the membership has quit and one third of the membership is too young to have a clue. A movement? No even close.
The inescapable problem is that it is - first of an attempt to sever the Union into slaveholding and nonslaveholding parts, and then of attempts to deny blacks equal citizenship. It is irretrievably tainted. And if you feel you must base your “regional pride” on such a symbol, that “pride” becomes highly suspect as well.
There are other symbols of “southernness” that can be used in logos - magnolias, collard greens, alligators, whatever. Apparently none have the same cachet as the one that says “The South’s Gonna Do It Agin!”, whatever “it” is.
Is this the equivalent of destroying the country to save it? :dubious:
Yes, Texas Chauvinism trumps Southern Pride every time. Let other states add the Stars & Bars to their flags–just Don’t Mess With the Lone Star!
“Six Flags Over Texas” was a concept long before it was an amusement park. But most historical depictions use the real Confederate flag, not the Battle Flag. (Actually, we’ve had more than six flags.)
Some people liked the Battle Flag because, hey, it’s cool to be a rebel! Johnny Yuma was a Rebel & all that. (In John Waters’ Cry Baby, a Battle Flag hung in Turkey Point, the Drape hangout. But it was an integrated dive & the flag meant “We’re trash & we’re proud.”) Then the Battle Flag was adopted by Segregationists during the Civil Rights movement. It still reeks of racism. Put the sticker on your truck if you must, but don’t use it as an Official State Emblem.
I’m a proud Texan, although the things I like about my state might not match what makes other Texans proud. We’re multicultural & multi-ethnic, with great food & music to match. For generalized Southern Pride, there’s always Southern Culture On the Skids.
Not a chance. There are always some small groups of neo-Nazis, Aryan Nations, etc., and from time to time one group may hit the papers because they’re making some noise with public events, but their numbers are miniscule.
There was a fair bit of publicity for one group in London, Ontario, several years ago, and more recently some wannabe Aryans have been active in Calgary.
However, as is typical of these groups, the Calgary group splintered over the past few months: the details aren’t clear, but it looks like the self-appointed leader of the group and another member of the group had a dispute over someone’s girlfriend, which is alleged to have resulted in an attempt at a home-made bomb being thrown at someone’s house (because that’s the reasonable way to settle affairs of the heart :rolleyes: ). The former leader fled Calgary and was eventually picked up in Winnipeg, and is now facing charges of attempted murder: Aryan Guard bombing suspect arrested in Winnipeg. (No doubt the details will become clearer at the trial - I’m just going by a few news reports.)
As a result, they disbanded: Calgary Aryan Guard Disbands after Botched Bombing:
Yup, these are the kinds of people who have the organizational abilities to take down a province, all right. 
Just for clarification. What is the meaning of the rebel flags which I see displayed by African Americans?
They’re making fun of rednecks.
That’s the thing, the people I’m talking about besides the color of their skin would be considered “rednecks”. These are rural blacks and it’s just not uncommon for them to have a confederate flag decal on the back glass of their pickup truck, belt buckle, horse trailor, or boots. Just like any other good ole boy.
Sorry if I’m hijacking, just thought my observation might be helpful.
Many apologies for any spelling or grammer as I am on my iPhone.
I’m happy to learn that I am a symbol of anti-racist vehemency, because I would hate to be known as someone who chooses to condone such evil
What, pray tell, is your definition of the difference? Were the Confederates right in seceding from the federal government and setting up an outlaw terrorist group with the stolen land of the US? Or maybe you think it was fine for them to essentially kidnap millions of citizens by the simple proximity of living within certain borders?
What the Confederates should have done, if they really had issues that had nothing to do with slavery, racism, or terrorism, is to sell their land, then take their property and MOVE OUT. Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, and all those southern states do not belong to a splinter group of racists, they belong to the US. By declaring war on the US, attacking the rightful government, and stealing land and people, they are treasonous scum that deserved to be put down. Their symbols are tainted. It doesn’t matter if the Confederate flag was a puppy hugging a kitten, THAT symbol would be one of treasonous rebellion, scum, racism, and holding a loser’s grudge for far too long
Those people should take a cue from ascenray who voluntarily chooses not to display swastikas around his house. I realize that this would simply be feeding the persecution complex that the modern day Confederates have, but sometimes symbols are co-opted and lose their original intent. The Confederate flag, whatever it may have once stood for, is NOW a symbol of violent and hateful racism
And what point is that? And when does everything past that point begin to stand for this divergence of Union and Confederate?
If the persons displaying the Confederate Battle Flag think they are doing it because they are pro-America, this just displays their cognitive dissonance.
I’d also like to add that people from Texas don’t even need to display a flag. We just talk about the state all the time, and people figure out where we’re from. Other states could adopt this practice and alleviate the need for state/regional flags entirely, but we will know you are just copying us.
I’ve never seen a black person do this. I’ve also never seen black people feeling a need to express Southern pride, neither seldomly nor constantly. In my experience, this only seems to be something that whites do. Black people have other identities that take greater precedent.
Not saying you’re lying about there being blacks who fly this flag, but honest to God, I think their existence is as about rare as the number of black soldiers who served the Confederacy. Why would a black person do it? The most obvious reasons would be abject ignorance and an unthinking sense of loyalty to a place that many of their ancestors literally tried to run away from. Another reason would be to make an ironic political statement, but unless they are a hipster living in an environment where satire is easily grasped, that is a stretch.
A friend of mine once tutored a black teenager in Alabama who did not know who MLK was. This is the type of black person (and his parents) who I’d imagine would be dumb enough to own that flag.
I have an idea. What if we had a single symbol that could be used to honor both the Confederate and Union soldiers who fought and died in the civil war. Maybe this.
Granted that I’m not looking at the shirt you saw, but the intended message was almost certailny the hostility to Latinos option.
Yeah, I’ve known a lot of “black rednecks” in my day, but truthfully I don’t think I’ve ever seen one with a rebel flag on display. Well, with the exception that there was a clothing company a while back that marketed confederate flag gear re-colored in red gold and green. I did see some of that around Atlanta.
Gotta disagree with you there, though. The “Dirty South” rap genre for example.
