Robert Mueller, a widely respected FBI investigator, put out a 32 page document as part of possibly the most important investigation of his career, in which he indicts 13 people on charges that don’t exist, that are not actually, legally crimes. And. Nobody says anything to that effect in response.
I can’t answer your question directly because the bizarre scenario it envisions as genuinely possible is… well… bizarre.
I see. Carry on.
Basically Mueller charged the Russians with lying on the internet, with the exception of the identity theft piece. Oh, and using computers based in the U.S. to lie on the internet. Plus, the Russians didn’t tell the U.S. government that they were lying on the internet.
Of course, everyone knows that no one ever lies on the internet.
Most of these things wouldn’t be a crime if a U.S. citizen did them. In fact, a bunch of U.S. citizens, who were not related to the Russians in any way, lied on the internet about both candidates in the last election. Lying about candidates isn’t something new, it has been going on since the first election took place. Same with countries trying to influence elections in other countries.
What surprises me is that anyone is surprised by this. The Russians do it. We do it. China does it. Etc, etc. Should anyone be doing this? Nope, not really. Will this stop it? Nope, not at all. This has been going on for a long time, long before Trump.
Should we indict these folks? Sure, though it won’t really change anything. Will this matter in the long run? Depends. If Mueller doesn’t have something big on Trump this will be viewed as chickenshit charges to cover his ass. If Mueller does get something on Trump, this will be seen as a brilliant first step. Either way, other countries will try similar things in the future to influence our elections just as we will try to influence elections in other countries.
The take away Americans ought to get is ‘don’t trust Twitter or Facebook for your news’. However, I doubt that will sink in.
Slee
If law enforcement thinks Steele broke the law, they are free to investigate. I don’t know the law, but I would hope investigating treason isn’t a crime. That’d be like saying all the cops who work in the sex crimes division should be charged with possessing child pornography because they have to look at video and pictures of children being abused as part of their job.
So if they want to investigate go ahead, but I’d hope investigating criminal behavior isn’t the same thing as actually committing criminal behavior. Steele investigated criminal behavior by Trump and his associates.
Having said that, the investigation goes beyond just influencing the election. Money laundering ties to Russia are also being investigated. Obstruction of justice is being investigated. Mueller may be looking into financial crimes Trump committed in China (the Steele dossider said he had quite a bit there). Who knows what else Mueller is investigating. The special counsel is free to investigate and prosecute any crime that comes up as part of his investigation.
I think you missed his point. He was pointing out the absurdity of what adaher was asking. Of course Mueller indicted them for actual crimes.
Sure, some of these crimes would not be such for an American citizen acting on US soil. But that’s to be expected with laws that are about foreign meddling. Making them not foreign takes away the thing that makes it a potentially bad thing.
… and what’s the deal with Enron? Weren’t they investigated for doing nothing more than buying low and selling high?
Gosh no - they set up complex governance structures where they could park “off balance sheet” assets and debt away from their main company Financial Statements (and into shell companies named after Star Wars characters) and prop up their earnings.
The point being that Mueller had to get very comfortable overseeing legal and financial experts as they dug into arcane contracts and financial transactions to “follow the money.” It seems clear that a similar “follow the money” expertise is required in all of the transactions that Trump, Manafort, et. al, have been involved with that are in scope for Mueller’s investigation.
I doubt much effort will be put into prosecuting the 13. This is all about showing that the Russians were in fact not only attempting to influence the election but to influence it in the direction of Trump, which removes one of Trump’s talking points and bolsters the case to keep investigating.
I have no idea what “big” indictments are likely to come or when, but this is still likely relatively early in the process.
So, sounds like the authorities were just mad over some paperwork issues.
Are you whooshing me? I assume so.
Manipulating their Financial results in order to deceive investors is illegal, yes?
Whooshing or incredibly uninformed. Enron habitually invented revenue. Their income statements and balance sheets were criminally falsified for years.
For pete’s sake, of course Ravenman is being sarcastic.