What more is the Special Counsel looking for?

Just based on the publicly known information on the escapades of George Papadopoulos, Donald Trump jr., Paul Manafort and the Michael Flynn connections alone, there is evidence of unlawful collusion between the Trump Campaign and Vladimir Putin’s administration.

Even without Interviewing the President, I agree with House Intelligence Committee member Adam Schiff that there is ample evidence that a crime has been committed. How much longer and what more do you think the Special Counsel is looking to put together before going public with a charge?

He may be digging into Trump’s finances, which appear to be closely tied to Russia as well. That’s a yuge mess, and it involves NY state laws too. Those can’t be pardoned by the President, btw.

Three people have already been charged; one plead guilty. The special counsel is building a case and it can and should take time. What would be the benefit of rushing?

It took Starr 7 years to find a blowjob, for comparison.

Mueller is a real pro, and a very experienced prosecutor. I would like to believe that his team is uncovering evidence, and if the evidence is damning of something significant (like being a traitor with Russia), building an airtight case against President Trump and/or those covered by the evidence.

It takes time. Mueller was appointed 9 months ago, pulled together his team, and started investigating. As ElvisL1ives pointed out that Starr took 7 years to find out that President Clinton lied about a blowjob. Starr found “no there, there” for Whitewater or the rest.

I’ll state again that if Mueller says there is “no there, there”, I’ll accept that. I find such an outcome to be highly unlikely but I will accept it.

What helps answer the question is that collusion in and of itself is not a crime. Also, the issue isn’t whether Trump and his campaign collided with Putin’s administration but more specifically with Russian efforts to undermine the election. Trump’s campaign could have negotiated with Russia on some understanding not associated with the campaign and, Logan Act aside, there wouldn’t be the same issues so long as whatever understanding was not or did not look like a quid pro quo for any election-related information operations against the US or Hillary specifically. Avoiding the appearance of that would be difficult, but it might have been theoretically possible.

That the special counsel probe has seemed to expand greatly seems to be the root of the answer. Obstruction of justice, potential conspiracy to commit other crimes, and whatever else Flynn or other Trump associates might have committed are the things most likely on the table. Who knows what other financial crimes might be out there? Mueller has to know that he’s on a clock with the tenuous Congressional Republican support.

4 charged, 2 guilty.

Exactly. Perhaps a better question might be: What is the SC not looking into. I imagine that a SC would see Trump et al as a “target rich environment”.

Even that dark, damp, smelly place is not off limits.

It would really be helpful to the country if Mueller, or NY, would release some interim information, or file interim charges, based on what they’ve found, rather than let it drag out for years with no conclusion. Starr dragged his investigation out because he couldn’t find anything, but Mueller wouldn’t be supporting/protecting/defending the Constitution if he let mission growth take over so heavily that Trump would be gone and it would no longer matter by the time he was done.

Yep, yep, yep. He’s digging into financials from multi-billion dollar entities with holdings around the world. Trump’s not going to get hit with collusion charges (I’m not even sure what those are.) It’s money-laundering and racketeering that has him worried. There is zero chance that all of his money is clean and he knows it. He’s a real estate developer in New York that we know has had extensive contacts with the mob. I’m not saying he’s up to his eyeballs in criminality, but there’s some there and it has him worried. Collusion is such a nebulous concept that politically he can rely on the cover that Republicans will provide. Taking money from the Bonannos is a bit harder to explain.

While collusion might not have the “stickiness” needed to rise to a criminal investigation, the obstruction of justice angle certainly does. I am not a law type person, but it is curious to me that this isn’t more conclusive, as the public statements made at the time of the Comey firing by Trump basically form a confession.

Under Mueller’s appointment, he can not only prosecute crimes related to Russia, but any crime that he uncovers as part of his investigation. Trump supposedly has a lot of crimes in China too, so Mueller may be investigating those too.

Right now supposedly Mueller is using mid range Trump people (Flynn, Page, Papadoupolous, Manafort, etc) to flip on the higher level Trump people (trump himself and his family, Sessions, Pence, etc). My prediction is spring is when we will see indictments against the top level people.

Keep in mind that Trump and his families crimes need far more than 1 year of investigation. We may be investigating Trump, his family and his administration for the next 20 years. The level of criminality in Trump and his administration is something we’ve never seen before.

Witch hunts take time. Witches can be surprisingly good at hiding, and it takes time to manufacture evidence in a convincing way. Not to fool the liberals who are still butthurt that their messiah queen Hillary lost, of course. Obama’s Deep State operatives and their puppet Mueller are busy colluding with Russians and George Soros and Black Lives Matter to try to stop Trump from making America great again, because they know they need millions of illegal alien voters to elect Democrats and want transsexual perverts to use kids’ bathrooms.

I’m surprised you don’t know this; it’s been all over Facebook for months.

Take your time, Mueller; there’s no rush. Indeed, ousting the short-finger buffoon quickly would not be productive. Even a Rubio or Cruz would make a better President than Pence.

(One thing that could speed this up is if Trump could somehow be taunted into talking freely and under oath to Mueller. But Trump’s team would hypodermic Potus into a coma before allowing that.)

I’d prefer that Mueller wait until the case against Trump and his gang of felons is overwhelming. Of course, no matter how overwhelming the case, 39% of America will never believe it:

I’m concerned that if this wretched lot keeps committing crimes faster than Mueller can investigate them, then Mueller will never catch up to the point where he can issue indictments. I think if there’s enough there now to charge everybody, he should do it now before they really fuck things up. Now I feel like it’s like investigating a serial killer and looking for his possible drug connections instead of locking him up and making the rest of us safe. Impeach. Convict. Resist.

This is an immensely complex case, covering an entire rainbow of criminal charges, many international in nature.

Discovering the crimes takes time. Tracing the documentary evidence of the crimes takes time. There are shell companies on top of shell companies on top of shell companies.

Interviewing the witnesses, some of whom don’t live in the USA, takes time.

Obtaining the records available through international laws also takes time, even if you’re the FBI.

Mueller and his team are dealing not just with the laws of the USA, but those of other nations that govern the discovery and release of private financial records. In many instances, the records are from places that actively work to obscure the nature of their true business: The Seychelles, The Caymans, Cyprus, etc.

Now imagine the obstacles Mueller’s team must surmount in order to obtain any documentary evidence from Russia, if that’s required.

Lastly, it is painfully clear that Republicans currently in control of Congress will disregard any report Mueller submits to them. I am positive that Mueller and his crack team will not have worked as hard as they have just to have their findings ignored upon submission. This Republican Congress has fully abdicated its responsibilities under the Constitution to be a check on presidential power. I believe Mueller will time the release of the majority of his findings to coincide with the results of the mid-term elections.

Once it gets underway, The Reveal is going to stretch over years. Some of the stuff can be dealt with more immediately, like the obstruction cases. Many of the international crimes like money laundering, racketeering, conspiracy to defraud the USA of a fair, impartial election in 2016, will take longer. Mueller may have enough evidence of some of it now but Team Mueller will be working far into the future to nail it all down. The stench of the Trump “presidency” will be with us for a very long time.

Evidence, of course. What is “publicly known” is not necessarily unlawful, or illegal. No one has been convicted of “collusion” with the Russians. AFAIK, it’s not even a crime (unless you can point to an actual “collusion” statute which the “people I don’t like” have violated). Lying to the FBI is illegal. Lying under oath is illegal (Ask Bill Clinton :wink: )

The Special Counsel is conducting a wide ranging investigation. Investigations are a good thing. Keeps the politicians on their toes. They may even get around to investigating Hillary’s ties to the Russians.

Since Mueller himself won’t be doing the questioning and instead they would be given by an FBI agent, sworn testimony wouldn’t even be required with Trump as lying to federal law enforcement is also a felony a la Flynn and Papadapoulos. Trump would never submit himself to actually testifying live or via video before the grand jury (which is the only real likelihood of sworn testimony becoming an option). Especially because members of the grand jury could ask him questions too and his attorneys wouldn’t be allowed to be present or give Trump counsel.

Trump’s plethora of public statements, especially relating to any obstruction of justice allegation, might make redundant any need for further questioning on that point. If Trump rejects any voluntary interview, it probably would be best for Mueller to avoid any long, drawn-out court battles over issuing a grand jury subpoena. Just let Trump’s fear and self-contradiction about his desire to tell his side stand in stark contrast.

I know where your coming from and more or less share that sentiment. However, my own perspective is tempered by the idea that Mueller is a smart man and knows what he’s doing. It’s hard to wait, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s choosing the wiser course of action. But yeah, it sure would be nice to get something out there sooner rather than later.

On the plus side, I think the longer things take, the worse it’s going to be for this administration.