Congratulations, straight supremacists

The BBQ Pit
101

MrVisible, your OP broke my heart. I can only feel a fraction of the rage/anger/confusion/hurt/pain/frustration that you feel, but I hope your nephew will be able to find a safe place where he can life without that kind of threat. And I agree 100% with your analysis of the situation. Bigots may not ever physically attack a gay person, but they surely create an atmosphere and enviroment that encourages that sort of despicable behaivor, and it always saddens me when I read these type of threads and realize how many people on this board–people you’d expect are smart and compassionate enough t know better–still come in with their homophobic banners blazing.

And wow wolfstu. That’s one of the most amazing posts I’ve ever seen on these boards. I doubt the person it’s written in response to will understand and take it to heart, but I for one appreciate the time and effort you put into composing it.

102

wolfstu, good post. I will give it thought. It does seem that we are in disagreement about the purpose of life in the universe, but I won’t hold such a trivial matter against you. :wink:

Homebrew

After going back and re-reading my post, I can see I worded that sentance poorly. I simply meant to mean there is a lifestyle behind backing research and spending on AIDS while there is not one for cancer research.

However, now that you have asked, I would note that if there is a lifestyle behind AIDS it would be one of unprotected and often promiscuous sex.

lezlers, I did try to answer your question as best I could. Like I said, the part you keep focusing on about tax status and my lack of enthusiasm for priviledges regarding hetero-marriages is only half of it. The rest of my post was an attempt to explain the other half of why I feel this way.

Also, you have a problem with me calling homosexuality a defect, a lifestyle and be genetic all at the same time. I don’t see a problem with this. Being gay, IMHO is a lifestyle that people live because they are born with brain that is wired differently. My $.02 on it is that it is probably genetic. I am sure you disagree, but I don’t see the logical flaw in these things all being at once true.

As to the issue of hate crimes, like I said, I am against all hate crime legislation. Not just for gays, but other groups also. I do understand that the point is to punish more those who attack for hate and no other reason. I just don’t think, until mind-reading machines are invented, that this is a possible thing to achieve. They way that such laws are bound to be interpreted is that violent crimes (for any reason) against these minority groups will be punished more severely than against the groups that aren’t protected. The law should protect everyone equally.

MrVisible, Otto and anybody else I have offended:

I will attempt to bow out of the thread now. Like I said before, I don’t mean to offend, and haven’t tried to do anything but speak my mind directly and honestly while being respectful.

If this is makes me so horrible to you I can’t imagine what you think about the millions of people who actually do hate you just because of your sexual orientation. Because I don’t.

103

pepperlandgirl, neat simul-post. You may consider yourself proven wrong.

104

You know, I was going to say exactly what wolfstu just said.

Really!

105

No, you just think we’re aberrations of nature that ought to be denied equal civil rights. That’s so much better than not hating us. Cuz, cuz, cuz yeah.

106

Wolfstu, that was brilliant.

107

Here’s a free clue. I have an extra.

A lifestyle is a manner of living.

I live with one partner. We own a house. We pool our resources, which fall within a particular financial band. Our discretionary spending is generally on books, music, computer games, and tech toys. We don’t buy much pre-prepared food, because we both know how to cook from scratch, but we order a fair amount of take-out or delivery because we’re lazy bastards. We have no children, but we have two cats, a snake, and a fair number of fish. I work at home; my partner has a day job and times of being on-call to handle work emergencies. We have one car. We tend to use cellphones for long distance telephony rather than our land-line because it’s significantly cheaper for us. We see a movie maybe every couple of months, usually going out to dinner with it, and get together with friends regularly to play board games. We take occasional flights across the continent to visit the other half of our family, and about twice a year take the nine-hour drive to visit our parents and siblings for a few days.

Got a clear sense of my lifestyle?

Good.

Got a clear sense of my genitalia, or the partner of whom I speak’s genitalia?

No?

Whyever not?

Surely it must be clear whether my lifestyle is gay or straight or bisexual.

108

Hopefully this is a strawman, because you appear to have a pretty sterile lifestyle; it is impossible for me to describe my lifestyle without including such things as say, love and passion and faith. And ideals. My ideals are evident in my way of life, heck, they’re evident in my choice of diet.

You make a good point Lilairen, but your model does not hold; I personally cannot define my lifestyle without including my consciousness, my aspirations, my beliefs or my sexuality.

This is one of the reasons I reckon people should never lay gelt on generalizations.

But since you asked, you’re obviously a lesbian. :wink:

109

Love and passion and faith are part of my life. Not my marketing category.

110

As a gay teen, I guess I’ve got nothing to lose offering my thoughts on the subject.

I’ve been blessed enough not to have to deal with the self-righteous moralizing of “straight supremacists”. (IMO, that term does capture the essence of what these people are. “Homophobe” is too weak, too technical to define them accurately.) I’ve had a supportive family and friends, and for all that I’m grateful. I wish the same to others like me, but it appears that’s not yet possible, doesn’t it?

Throughout high school, I heard “gay” and “fag” every day, as kids used these words without thinking, as slang - I always cringed when I heard these, not because I’m thin-skinned or anything, but because I know what my peers go through at the hands of people who should know better.

An old boyfriend of mine was kicked out of his house by his parents after he came out - and people think they have the right to ramble about “special rights” and “the homosexual agenda”?

How many times does it need to be said: equal rights are not special rights? I’m horrified to come to these boards and see the phrase “homosexual agenda” being used. Can we not get beyond inaccurate catchphrases that only hurt and polarize people, and don’t contribute to any substantive debate? As if any real debate is possible between bigots and the tolerant.

Get the hell beyond the archaic anti-gay ideology foisted on you by religion. You may think it’s faithful and good, but it hurts more people than you will know. (And I’m speaking as a devout Catholic who’s had enough of the Church’s bigotry.)

Sorry I’m rambling, but the story in the opening post struck a chord with me. Think about it next time you’re in the voting booth, or at church, or talking with friends. Your words have the potential to change lives - the lives of innocent people who want to live and love in their own way, people who’ve never done anything to you.

111

Well said.

112

Well said, and welcome to the boards.

113

Hi there, gybefan. Excellently written; welcome to the boards! :slight_smile:

114

wolfstu is my hero of the day.

Okay, week. That was brilliant.

Welcome, gybefan.

115

gybefan, thanks. Good to have you aboard.

116

And we have Godwin’s Law invoked on page 1.

Wait, do actually have to use the words ‘Nazi’ or ‘Hilter’? Or is “Jews” and ‘extermination’ enough?

But to answer you question, someone who advocated the extermination of an entire religious group would obviously be a much higher caliber on the judgement spectrum than ‘human trash’. And, of course, higher than ‘misguided fool’.

Here’s my reasoning:

“Misguided fools” can change. They can become more enlightened and open-minded, less fearful and resentful as a result of new experience and information. If they want to and are given enough time, because a lot of things that are drilled into us as children take a long time to shake off.

“Human trash” seems kinda like a permanent condition, as does “genocidal freak”.

117

My nephew has an opposite problem. His name is Tommy and he and his family live in Grand Island, Nebraska. He is 16 and a junior in High school. His hobbies and activities include shooting at wild game with his 12 guage, playing football, working on his pickup truck, and he and his friends beat the living hell out of homosexuals on a regular basis. He goes to church and prays to Jesus every sunday. he is a good boy.

His father works for Fortune 500 company and his company offered him a Vice President position in …

San Francisco! Yes, San Fran. Well, that’s OK, except that when Tommy’s mother inquired about sending him to high school out there, there was a problem because it was mid term and most all schools will filled, except for the Harvey Milk optional school.

So, my poor nephew is now forced to be a straight kid in an all gay school. Imagine that. He is fearful of course, we are afraid one of those gay kids will beat on him, kiss him, or touch his butt. This kid thinks that transgendered is a Pontiac muscle car.

He’s my nephew. How is he going to survive? How I tell ya? How?

118

He enjoys beating gays and is now afraid that they will beat him???

I’m being whooshed here, ain’t I…

Ca I get a smiley here???

119

THE MORE YOU KNOW
…*

120

smiling bandit, snoopy fan, does it matter to you at all that the kids at the school Mr. Visible’s nephew attends are already practicing gossip, malice, and slander, sins Paul and Jesus clearly and explicitly condemns, unlike homosexuality? Do you care that they are directly breaking the Commandment Christ gave us? Oh, and snoopy fan, has your husband ever approached you for sex during your period? That’s condemned 3 verses befor homosexuality in Leviticus.

No. Of course it doesn’t matter. Do you know, I’ve never met anyone whose life has been destroyed by being homosexual? On the other hand, my own soul bears the scars of being on the receiving end of gossip, malice, and slander. For a long while, I thought part of it was destroyed. It is a crying sin that some people are quick to condemn a man who treated me decently when we were teenagers because he turned out to be gay while saying nothing about the kids who convinced me I was ugly, useless, worthless, and unlovable.

Mr. Visible, I don’t think I have to tell you how sorry I am. At least your nephew has a family who is better equipped to give him support than mine was. I kind of wish I could be there to defend him, even though I know how well the first time I tried to defend someone in high school worked.

In Matthew 7, Jesus taught about clean and unclean. 2000 years later, Christians still haven’t got it.

Again, I’m sorry.
CJ