So you're gay. Who gives a rats ass?

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I have a question to ask. I have a neighbor who is gay. I’ve seen his SO many times. Last week, I saw the two of then in a passionate embrace in his back yard. ( Kissing, not screwing, you devients) I made a passing reference to his boyfriend, and was met with a heated denial that he was gay. Fine with me, but really, who gives a fuck? I understand that fundies might get all self rightious, emphesising the homophobic sayings of Paul and not the teachings of Christ, but other than that, what’s the big deal? I have always realized that everyone is fucking someone else, and if I’m not one of the parties involved, it’s none of my business. Why not just be open about it?

I am posting this question for those dopers who love people with the same genetalia that you have. Is the persecution you get really all that great in the year 2000? It would be arrogent of me to assume that my attitiude is all “enlightened”, but really, I can’t see why anyone would care. So, how badly are you treated because you love a same sex partner?

" . . . I have always realized that everyone is fucking someone else . . . "

—Jesus, what neighborhood do YOU live in?!

I’m not gay, but I have a lot of friends who are.
I treat them the same and my non-gay friends don’t really seem to care either.

In fact, I don’t think i’ve ever been with any of my gay friends and observed any outright persecution.

Only a few drunk college frat boys getting out of bars late at night who occasionally yell things. This doesn’t happen too often, though.

The only time I saw a problem was when i was with my gay friend walking down the street at nightand we passed a bunch of skinheads. Nothing happened, but either my gay friend had been through this before or was just paranoid.

He asked if he could hold hands and be all gushy like a couple so they would think he was straight. I obliged, but it made me feel sad that he felt a need to do this.

And when can I move there?

Chill dude. It’s just backlack from the way we flaming straights flaunt our heterosexuality. It will balance out eventually.

At the risk of being insensitive, you’ve never been in the closet, so you don’t know.

It’s not the actual “what would happen” if they came out, it’s the imagined that counts. Knowing full well what could happen is a hell of a deterrent, especially since society, getting better as it is, still ain’t great (particularly depending on where you live).

The good news is that more people than not have told me that after they came out virtually none of their fears were realized and they’re much happier now that they’re open about themselves. But the initial courage it takes to overcome one’s individual upbringing and society’s messages is great.

Best thing you can do, dave, is to be a good neighbor. Don’t bring it up again, but at the same time let him know in whatever way you feel comfortable that, as you said, you just don’t give a rat’s ass. Perhaps he’ll come around and feel comfortable enough to be open with you, perhaps not, but it’s his decision.

If you don’t care who he’s screwing, why do you care that he’s in the closet? Both of those are his choices. (Don’t get me wrong - I’m a huge advocate of being out, but I also respect people’s choices if they respect mine).

Esprix

Not insensitive, and exactly why I asked.

BECAUSE WE’VE GOT TO GET THOSE FAG BASTARDS BEFORE THEY RUIN OUR GOOD, GOD-FEARING, AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE!!!

No, really. Actually, I don’t. I just noticed the guy tense up when I refered to his BF, and noticed that he seemed a bit distressed while denying it, and wondered why he would do that to himself. Also, I intend to do exactly what you suggest. Maybe I’ll invite the two of them over for dinner some time. You know- “You wanna come over for dinner tomorrow. And would your friend XXX like to come too?”

dave, that would do a world of good for your good neighborly relations. Make sure you spread out some copies of “Playguy” and “Honcho” ahead of time. :wink:

There’s a lesbian here where I work who seems to have come out to everyone… except me. ME! The Gay Guy himself. Imagine! You just can’t figure some people, but everybody’s got their reasons.

Esprix

Here’s a story of persecution, although promptly and properly remedied, from just a couple of days ago:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000823/sp/bbn_dodgers_lesbians_1.html

If we’re ever going to stop the “gerbiling” UL, we’re going to have to start phrasing our questions better.

It is bad depending on where you live. Dave, you live in Baltimore. Although it is not the gay haven of the East Coast (I think DC and NYC have that title) it is still relatively friendly. Divine lived there for a while and is a cult hero to most Baltimorons that I have met gay and straight. When I was living in San Antonio it was much different. I did volunteer work at the Gay and Lesbian Community Center there answering phones and just providing directional service primarily. We would get the periodic death threat. We took them all seriously. We were instructed to call the police immediately and give them the number if the person was foolish enough not to dial in anonomously and ask for them to trace the call. I don’t know much of anything that ever came out of it.

I have personally been harassed by cops in local places there for being with my boyfriend at the time and just flirting with him. I had several different cops on varying occasions tell me that if we held hands, kissed, or even thought about doing gay things in front of them they would either a) arrest us for indecency b) beat the crap out of us since we were just fags and no one would believe us (that one was reported to the DA but nothing ever happened to it c) or many various minor inconveniences like having our licenses reviewed with the cop writing down the details for some stupid database system that they had. In none of those circumstances were we ever doing anything illegal nor were we cruising (looking for outdoor sex) or anything like that. It was simply having dinner at a mid priced restaurant, walking in a Barnes and Nobles Bookstore (that is where the cop threatened to beat the crap out of me and my boyfriend), or at a shopping mall looking to buy some clothes. It is very different depending on your locale. You must remember these were the police. Also, I should say that at the time I was dressed normally with a professional haircut (I had long hair for a while and was harassed much more then…but mostly because it was a more visible sign of deviency in their opinions).

There have been countless incidents of non-cops harassing me because I was gay. I was once at a coffee house with some friends (predominately straight) and a guy I knew from middle school (just before I moved and came out…this was when I was 19 or 20) asked me if I would go to the park behind the coffee house with him to beat up some fags. It suddenly became obvious that his friends who were with him were “bisexual” and they ostracised (sp?) him. It was not nice. I have also had here in DC people yelling “FAG” and “We are gonna kill you FAGS!” at me walking on the street in Dupont Circle (the gayest area of DC). Homophobia is alive and well everywhere.

From the Washington Blade “Witnesses at the scene of the car crash at 50th and C streets, SE, reported seeing one Fire Department rescue worker laugh at and ridicule Hunter as Hunter lay on the street gasping for breath. The witnesses testified that the rescue worker, identified as firefighter Adrian Williams, assumed Hunter, who wore woman’s clothes and makeup, was a woman until he began treating Hunter and saw Hunter had male genitals. That’s when the rescue worker leaped to his feat and backed away from Hunter, ignoring pleas by neighborhood residents that he resume treating Hunter, according to court testimony.”

That story was about a transexual woman who was not given treatment because she was still physically a man.

I read a story from there from about a week ago (they don’t archive online that I am aware of) where a Brooklyn boy was beaten and/or killed by his father after he came out to them. The father just couldn’t take it. The mother also helped I think. He was 17. The details are unfortunately sketchy as I skimmed through the article to sickened to read it in detail.

I can give you hundreds more examples. I agree that there should be no stigma or hate attached to being gay. Frankly, it would benefit me a great deal. I know that you are not really homophobic in any way and think it is great that you could be matter of fact about your neighbors. Once they don’t see you as a potential threat things will open up to you. They may actually come over and give you fabulous haircuts and decorate your house because as we know no straight male slob can do those types of things. :wink: Just always be nice to them and they should most likely return the kindness unless of course they are scumbags like Divine was in Pink Flamingos, but that was the movies.

HUGS!
Sqrl

Here I thought this was about Richard Gere…

I’m opposed to homosexuality on moral grounds, but this story made me feel sad too.

I’m opposed to rain on moral grounds…

:wally


Yer pal,
Satan

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This is a trope you hear from the religious right a good deal… but it is a very odd thing to say. No one speaking rationally says, “I don’t agree with the Pacific Ocean” or “I don’t agree with the Grand Canyon.”

  • Paul Varnell

Because I’m gay, I have personally:

had the boys in the Aryan Nation at my school discuss how much fun it would be to gang rape me
had said boys back me in a corner, and I still shiver to think about what would have happened if other people hadn’t come into the room
been ostracized from my school
endured comments and homophobic taunting
been slammed up against a locker
had boys grab their crotches and make obscene gestures at me
had my bookbag spat on
had to sit through teachers making homophobic comments
had several fundamentalist christians attempt to perform an “exorcism” on me and my girlfriend

Because my girlfriend is gay, she has personally:

been beaten by her father
been threatened by her parents that they’ll kick her out
been verbally abused by her entire family
had to endure humiliation in gym class

Some of my friends and exes have:

been forced into mental institutions against their will
been beaten until they were unconsious
committed suicide
abused drugs and alcohol
been forced out of their homes
been raped
received death threats

Lizard… morality has nothing to do with it. I’m gay. Nothing will change that. I never asked to be gay, I never wanted to be gay, I certainly wouldn’t wish some of the things that have happened to me and some of my friends because we are gay onto my worst enemy…

Morality is a funny thing. I’m a devout Christian, and my morals generally focus on treating people equally. I’m sorry, but whenever I hear people talk about morally being opposed to homosexuality, it makes me furious. I think it’s just a convenient excuse for ignorance.

andygirl

SqrlCub, that was an excellent observation and post. I agree with you on the ‘it’s where you live’ statement. I live in Waco (I know you know where that is) and I know a few gay people here, and I know that they do not openly display it here. I wouldn’t either. Too many big belt buckle wearing cowboy hat tipping nasty tobacco dipping angry rednecks here for me. But drive 90 mins south to Austin, and it’s almost scary to be a heterosexual. Go to north 90 mins to Dallas, and it’s not so bad either.

I’ve lived in several different states and many different towns and cities, and every place has a different attitude.

My biggest beef with gay people (and other ‘minorities’ who claim other ‘discrimination’) is that they make it KNOWN that that’s who they are. Call me dumb, but if I was a chick at a party with a bunch of recently release prisoners, I’m not going to wear a see thru top and a thong.

I recently shaved my head, and I expected to get major flack, mostly from black people. I also expected kids to treat me differently. But guess what people made me feel the worst? My family and the old people. No one (outside my family) would openly say anything about Neo Nazis, but I could definately tell that there was a small amount of fear and anger in peoples eyes. The kids don’t care. They still treat me like before. In fact, more kids cried at the sight of me when I had hair than when I didn’t.

I’m saying that I don’t care what/who/where you are, I’ll treat you the same. Piss me off, and I’ll treat you the same way I treat others who pissed me off. I rarely see the color of people’s skin or the ‘gay’ issue. I usually notice how that person is dressed and what they seem to be interested in. We need to be more responsible about ourselves. Worry not about the other person, worry about yourself.

Now, I know that there are racists, gaybashers, and all those evil people. But like I said, don’t agg them on, and nothing will happen (most of the time.) I’ve been made fun of because I have red hair, had zits, was overweight, wore different clothes, behaived differently. I’ve learned a lot about that. I’ve also learned that sometimes you just have to blend in. You can still be yourself and look like everyone else. Trust me. You shower with 40 other guys in 10 mins and you know the deal.

It shouldn’t matter what your color is, whether you’re gay or not, but you shouldn’t bait people. If I drew a swastika on my bald head, I would expect to get the crap beat out of me. I do things, and I accept the responsibilities of those actions. Not everyone does, though, and that’s the problem.

This society is too concerned with the gay issue. Like weirddave said, it doesn’t matter. It is something that can’t be seen like wealth or color or gender. It’s something that can hide for a long time and no one would ever know. I worked with an older man who I didn’t find out was gay until after working with him for 4 months. Someone told me. I treated him the same, but it made me realize, you can’t judge a book by its cover. He wasn’t what I’d call openly gay, but we never talked about those things at work.

I don’t care if someone’s gay, just don’t wave it in my face and then get mad if I say something about it. If I wear a shirt that says ‘wasssup?’, what gives me the right to get mad after everyone I meet says, ‘wasssup?’ That was my mistake in the first place.

Dear andygirl,

You can not know how angry reading your post made me, thinking about how you and quietgirl have been treated. Hearing these things makes me want to hurt people, and believe me, I can.

Fortunately, no one knew what I was in HS, or in college really for that matter, so I did not suffer from these sicknesses of society.

Hellfire. I’m going to stop writing now, as I am honestly - no bullshit - so angry I will soon say something about some other people on this board I will regret. And I just noticed I’m playing with my knife again, which is always a sign of impending rage…

Angry Una

Okay… let me see if I can get this straight. (No pun intended).

Because I want to not have to be asked why I don’t have a boyfriend, try to have my relationship with quietgirl recognized as a relationship, and talk about quietgirl…

I get what’s coming to me if someone decides to kill my little gay butt.

Just how often do people talk about their personal lives? How often do significant others come up in conversation?

I’m not going to wave a rainbow flag around, but god damn it, I’m going to live my life honestly.

I agree, what Andygirl described gave me chills. That is nasty.

I mean, come on! Who really cares if anyone’s gay or straight, unless you have a crush on them?
(Because you hope they’ll be attracted to you too)

After all, it’s NO ONE’s business who sleeps with who, etc.
And it’s not even a big deal. It does not affect me, so why should I care.

People like the ones described make me sick. I truly believe in live and let live…
Unless, of course, you happen to be something REALLY messed up…like you like Joe Don Baker movies…