Which part are you incapable of taking seriously, the WWII super-science or the fact that when the US managed to create a supersoldier they would use him as a combined ass-kicker and propaganda tool? They should have given him a better uniform and should have left the Nazis in, but there’s nothing about the core concept that bothers me.
I would like to associate myself with the ideas expressed in this post.
I’m actually much more concerned about Marvel’s apparent policy of white-washing the Nazis out of WWII. I don’t understand it, and, quite honestly, I find it a little disturbing.
Caps does a lot worse outside the US than in. I was present one time when The Man happened to be visiting the Salón del Cómic in Barcelona and this came up, and someone basically asked him “are you serious?” and showed him an issue where the jingoism was so thick you could have dunked bread in it. He went “oh :smack:” Not every issue is like that, but the changes and whatnots are a reflection of political realities in the US as seen by the writer - often, that’s completely alien to readers elsewhere, whereas the X-bunch or Spidey appeal to everybody (the X-bunch have a heavy political background but it’s a universal one).
It’s iconic enough to be one of the characters parodied in Superlópez (I give you one chance to guess who’s the main parody), but he just can’t be as popular as other characters. It isn’t even the fact that he’s “captain America”, it’s… well, he’s just too local. Captain Britain is draped in the Union Jack, but he’s not likely to start giving speeches about the Magna Carta and he’s not a creation of the UK government.
I think the most important reson why it could bomb is that Captain America isn’t all that well known in other countries (at least here in the Netherlands and dare I say most of Europe). The Super hero (or just hero) movies that do well and are big happenings are the Batman, Spiderman, Superman, X-men, Hulk type movies. Probably because a large part of the younger population know these from saturday morning animated series on TV(or the Lois and Clark/Smallville thing). Very few people actually read the comics (I have never read a comic about the hero’s mentioned above).
That being said, they are still being marketed as big budget action flicks and will do well enough, just not as good as the famous super heroes I menntioned. People went to see Daredevil, Elektra, The Fantastic four and Probably the Green Hornet as well, but in less greater numbers because no one had heard of these characters before the movie.
The concept art was enough to intrigue this Brit. A superhero wearing leather and what looks like chainmail rather than a cape and lycra? Yes please!
It scratches the fantasy realism (realistic fantasy?) itch I’ve got.
I know nothing about the mythology of the character or the comics. Ultimate Cap and Classic Cap mean nothing to me. That said, if I were the writer of the film and making money outside the U.S. were a high priority then this would be the angle I’d be aiming at. Even if it meant crapping on the fanboys to a degree. If Captain America is the crusader of the much talked about “American ideal” then I think he could universal. So long as the character doesn’t seem to imply that he and by extension America have the market cornered on liberty and justice and aren’t seen as bailing out Europe it could work. If the character is written in a way that shows him to be the hero of the little guy, a paragon of freedom and liberty and the ouster of tyranny and suffering anywhere and the jingoistic message is “America is on your side” then that can work. If Captain America spends a chunk of time hating the corporations, politicians and more despicable elements of the American way and saving the country from itself and delivering it to the “real America” then it’ll at least be self-aware enough to not be insulting to the rest of the world.
It’s a tall order, and might completely miss the point of the comic, but that’s probably the only hope of it working outside the States.
I am outside America!!!
And wild horses couldnt drag me to see this film. I know nothing about the backstory, all I know is the name “Captain America” :rolleyes:, and that he is a soldier carrying a shield :rolleyes:, that is also an American flag :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
I make a point of not using the :rolleyes: smilie, which tells you just how :rolleyes: Captain America makes me.
Very few people outside the U.S. had heard of Iron Man, and it ended up one of the most successful superhero films ever. You don’t need familiarity - you need good action, a charismatic star and a kick-ass trailer.
I’m wondering how many people that complain about the jingoism have actually read the book? Not only have we had a completely different guy, with a bit of a dodgy past as a brainwashed assassin for the Soviet Union, actually as Captain America, but before then Steve Rogers was sometimes portrayed as being a bit too stuck in his ways. The ending of Civil War was based around that very idea, with Cap realising that not only he but the rest of the heroes had lost the support of the people.
The only really remotely jingoist stories for several years now have been one-shot or out of continuity stories involving troops. They generally sell rather poorly everywhere. Not that Captain America sells particularly well anyway (then again, Iron Man sells less and that was a very successful film), but using the most recently available sales figures:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/12/28/marvel-nonth-to-month-sales-november-2010/
Captain America #612 sold 47,343, Captain America: Man Out of Time sold 23,566 (and that’s part one of a five-part mini series, sales are just going to go down and down) and Captain America: Forever Allies (apparently a reunion of characters from the WW2 days) sold a massive 9,905.
So in short, you can’t tell much from sales. Captain America certainly hasn’t been jingoistic in current continuity for several years. And I say that as a non-American. The question is whether the tone of the film will be taken from modern stories or it’ll hark back to silver or golden ages versions of the character. With the move away from bashing Germans to bashing Hydra the jury is out on that one.
Indeed. Amongst my peer group I was pretty much the only one that had heard of Iron Man before the first trailer hit. And to think they used to mock me for reading comics. HOW COOL WAS I THEN? 
But that’s exactly Traditional Captain America. If they’re pissing off fans doing Cap that way, those fans have never learned to read then (wouldnt be that surprising if they’re the uber jingo types). Cap does the right thing, he does the humane thing. Even if it’s the most difficult way. He’s the Pure Warrior, with a greater emphasis on pure than warrior. He’s the King Arthur of America combined with Jesus like aspects.
BTW, contrary to what’s been said here, Captain America is among the most well-recognized characters Marvel has. Not the most popular as, until recently, his sales were not that good, but show him to a bunch of people, whether they be US or not, and most will be able to tell his name, if they cant really tell his story.
The Ultimate version is way more tongue-in-cheek. Even though a lot of the fans of Ultimate Cap dont get the joke, and take his act at face value. It’s clear Millar intended to mock American jingoism with Cap. It ended up going miles over the heads of comic fans actually into jingoism. Problem is Ultimate Cap has nothing endearing going for him, which is precisely one of the appeals of Trad Cap (insert Cap N Trade joke).
I have no idea whether the movie itself will be any good, but the moviemakers obviously share your fear. They’ve been swearing up and down that there’s NOTHING particularly patriotic or uniquely American about Captain America!
There should be a Hall of Fame of stupid quotes.
Now, everybody knows I’m no fan of American jingoism, but I’m definitely going to see this movie, and I particularly like that it’s all WWII-Cap with a framing story.
The only thing putting me off is Chris Evans, actually. He was my least-favourite part of the Fantastic Four movies, plus there’s something picayune in me that rails against an actor playing more than one super hero (ditto Ryan Reynolds)
I like Captain America, although I have not bought or read a single issue of his comic since he was doing the Nomad act back in the '70s. Therefore, I (and many other potential movie-goers) do not give a rat’s ass what is happening in the comics lately. We want to see Cap kicking some ass as the embodiment of American ideals – the good stuff we like to believe about ourselves, not the petty politicking and global bullying.
If the movie takes the right tack here, with Cap not being “America- Right or Wrong” but being “we must strive every day to live up to our potential” then I think it can do well.
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001375/mediaindex
It may or may not be specifically killing Nazis, but it appears that his enemies are definitely Nazi-inspired. C’mon - black-leather-wearing cyborg SS commandos? It’s like somebody played WOlfenstain and said, yeah, gotta get some of that.
In that other thread I suggested that a non-American director would give an interesting take on Captain America. I have now refined that thought–Paul Verhoeven would make the greatest Captain America movie possible to make. The “America–Fuck Yeah!” yahoos would stand up and cheer with tears in their eyes, and everyone overseas be laughing their heads off.
I would like to see Cap quote Carl Shurz: “My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”
Lol you’re right about the yahoos not getting the joke, but look at Starship troopers, the jingo jungle still sensed something was wrong, there was a vague aftertaste of shit in that uber patriotic apple pie. It did well in Europe, but failed in the States. Besides, while I love Verhoeven, I would prefer him not to ridicule Cap, he can be a great character. Maybe more a Robocop take (that is the universe is decadent, the hero is flawed, but he still remains the hero) than a Starship Troopers one.
After seeing Casino Royale I would have thought Martin Campbell would have been a good choice, but Green Lantern looks bad. Didnt Joe Johnston direct The Rocketeer (maybe why he got the Cap job if it’s supposed to be a WW2 piece with Nazis)?
Ha, there’s some of us Americans that won’t watch a “Captain AMERICA” movie. Myself being one of those.
Lots of sour grapes, methinks.