Conservatives and/or Trump supporters, please explain to us liberals why we shouldn't be afraid

Politics & Elections
1

I’ve seen several conservatives and Trump supporters talk about how us liberals are freaking out over nothing.

So if you can, explain why we are wrong to be worried (I mean that respectfully to start a discussion). Looking at how some people on the right freaked out about Obama, none of what they freaked out about came to pass (economic collapse, massive gun control, fema camps, etc).

I can’t speak for all liberals but I am afraid of the following things.

[ul]
[li]People losing health care due to repeal of ACA and/or voucherization of medicare[/li][li]Trump’s naivety and overemotional responses causing international incidents or possibly military action[/li][li]Restrictions on the civil/human rights of minorities and historically oppressed groups (voter suppression, muslim registries, breaking up immigrant families, etc)[/li][li]Loss of international respect for America[/li][li]Higher risk of a terror attack (due to Trump not going to intel briefings, and ISIL possibly knowing Trump will overreact and play into their hands by engaging in a land war)[/li][li]Environmental degradation/climate change[/li][/ul]

There are other things I don’t like, but I don’t fear them as much as I just detest them.

[ul]
[li]Attempts to privatize social security (will not survive filibuster)[/li][li]Removal of net neutrality[/li][li]Corruption and conflict of interest between Trump business & public sector[/li][li]An increase in income inequality[/li][/ul]

So there are things I genuinely fear, and things I just don’t like. But I think a lot of us have a valid reason to be afraid.

2

Um, no disrespect, but it’s pretty easy for a lot of them: conservatives simply don’t think it’s a problem.

Climate change doesn’t exist.

The free market will take care of health care.

The international community didn’t respect Obama the weakling, so Trump is a refreshing change to them.

Trump is not naive or over emotional.

Net neutrality is bad for America and income inequality isn’t a big deal.

See?

3

Don’t forget things like climate change, workplace safety, labor/union rights, pollution, bank deregulation.
Unfocused deregulation in general.

4

Judging from what I’ve read and heard in recent weeks, conservatives DO want liberals to be afraid. (As a sort of schoolyard now you’re in trouble, now you’ll show me some respect! taunt.*)

*All in vain, of course.

5

Anyone else watch that town hall thingy with Bernie talking to Trump voters? A theme that ran through it was Trump voters saying that they didn’t take Trump’s “threats” seriously, because the Congress wouldn’t cooperate with them!

I find myself in the uncomfortable position of hoping stupid people are right.

6

Some things he claimed to want aren’t even possible, like when he called for nationwide stop and frisk, or various illegal orders the military wouldn’t follow.

7

Nationwide stop and frisk would be easy, not impossible. All that has to be done is refuse to ignore cops who do it. Most won’t, being too busy anyway. But some will.

8

You mean just ignore. Or refuse to see. Refuse to ignore isn’t likely what you meant. :slight_smile:

9

The military waterboarded under Bush.

I read that even though that was only 10 years go, a lot has changed and it isn’t possible to do that now legally. A lot has changed in the last 10 years and lots of new safeguards have been implemented.

But it didn’t stop anyone the first time.

10

My 2 cents:

Liberals do have a lot to fear in the upcoming 4 years, especially with the potential for one or more right-wing SCOTUS justices.

But 2020 will likely be a landslide win for the Blues, and a redistricting election too. So it’s short-term loss for the Democrats but very longterm gain. Trump may well be the last GOP president for a very, very, long time to come.

So Democrats only need to batten down the hatches and emerge victorious after four years.

11

I think the big difference is that Bush was told that waterboarding wasn’t illegal and I’m sure he convinced himself of that so he could look in the mirror every morning.

Trump says “Fuck if it’s illegal. I’ll order it (and worse) anyway and the military will do as I say!”

12

Most of the OPs concerns seem pretty realistic. I think there’s a good chance that:
[ul]
[li]Some people, especially poorer people, lose their health insurance[/li][li]Government programs that benefit the poor are cut significantly[/li][li]The federal government will take no action to fight climate change, rolls back some protections against fossil fuel pollution, and cuts funding for climate research[/li][li]Muslim immigrants are subject to increased government scrutiny (as they were under the Bush-era program NSEERS)[/li][li]The FBI does less to oppose racial profiling by local police departments[/li][li]The federal government does less to defend the rights of LGBTQ individuals[/li][li]More conservative federal judges are appointed[/li][li]Net neutrality is scrapped[/li][/ul]All of these, however, are also what I would expect under a typical conservative Republican in 2016, given a Republican-controlled Congress.

In addition to these, I expect that Trump will continue to say and tweet a lot of things that are blatant falsehoods, some of which malign racial, ethnic, and religious minorities. I expect that he will not work to foster a national culture of tolerance and respect for minorities to even the most minimal degree that any other President in my lifetime has done. I expect he will further inflame his supporters distrust of journalists, scientists, and the media.

That’s where I think he’s unusual (except maybe the anti-science part, which seems to have become pretty standard for Republicans in recent years). I think that what the President says matters, and our country will be worse off because of the sorts of things Trump says. But in terms of government action, I’m not so sure we’ll see anything that different than if, say, Paul Ryan were President.

Not that I wouldn’t also shudder at a Ryan Presidency or a Pence Presidency, but I think it’s worth separating out “What are we worried about because it’s Trump” from “What are we worried about because it’s the Republicans in the White House and controlling both houses of Congress.”

13

I guess this presupposes either that (1) the things which Democrats think are awful about a Trump administration will be recognized as awful by the people who voted for him, or (2) turnout among various groups will be drastically different in 2020 than it was in 2016.

Both of those are possible, but I’m far from confident in either.

14

From a conservative perspective:

ACA – My premiums have skyrocketed, from $116 a month to nearly $450, with my deductible doubling. I support the repeal of the ACA, and I believe that I will benefit from it. Certain people may suffer from it, but the ACA as it stands is failing the average person, and causing all of us to subsidize the sick and poor through higher premiums. Not an easy issue to solve, but I’m for any relief I can get.

International Incident – I think he is attempting to mimic Nixon’s mad man approach. And if he keeps us out of additional foreign wars, I’ll be very pleased. Too much blood and treasure has been wasted by previous administrations.

Civil/Human rights – I do not support a Muslim registry. If by “breaking up immigrant families” you are referencing deporting illegal aliens, I support that, and believe it would be a good thing. A comprehensive guest worker program needs to be implemented, but will not be viable until the borders are secure. I fully understand the arguments against voter ID laws, but cannot empathize with one who does not have an ID. If the DOJ is neutered in this area, I will not complain.

Respect for America – Lost by who? A nationalist, populist push is happening in several countries, and the old order is being upended across the West. If Angela respects us less, I won’t care.

Terrorism – The President doesn’t stop terrorist attacks. Whether he receives a thousand briefings, or none. As long as there are dedicated intelligence professionals who are receiving the tools and support they need, good things should happen. With the rise of lone wolf attacks however, our ability to prevent attacks is more challenging.

Climate Change – I am worried about this issue, but there’s a delicate balance that needs to be struck. For the time being fossil fuels are cheaper than renewable energy. Until technology and infrastructure improve, it’s the hand we’ve been dealt. If we want a lot of people to have jobs, we need cheap fuels.

15

I think Trump is an asshole and a fraud, which is why I voted for Evan McMullin.

But while I think he’s a jerk and a bad choice for President, I don’t fear him. You shouldn’t either.

But why should I try to persuade liberals not to pee in their pants? It’s so much fun watching them!

16

Libertarian here, voted for Gary Johnson.

You should be afraid of Donald Trump. Absolutely you should. He’s soon to be the head of the executive branch, the most powerful person in the USA if not the world.

Our founding fathers believed that government is always dangerous, because there is always the possibility of government overreaching and grabbing more power than it deserves to have. So have numerous other intelligent people over the centuries. In other words you should always be afraid of whoever has the most governmental power in a particular country.

The problem with Democrats is that they generally aren’t sufficiently afraid of the government and the people who run it. Indeed, they even think that a larger, more powerful federal government is a good thing.

If Democrats are starting to be afraid of Trump, then they’re moving in the right direction. They’re starting to have at least some of the wisdom about government that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and all those other breeches-and-wig-wearing guys had.

Let me ask you this. Suppose we had a much smaller, less intrusive federal government, wouldn’t President Trump be less scary? Suppose the military was smaller and had fewer overseas bases. Wouldn’t that reduce the opportunity for Trump to do something stupid with the military? Suppose the CIA didn’t exist. Wouldn’t that protect against the possibility of President Trump using the CIA for torture, as Dubya did? Suppose the Department of Homeland Security was smaller and had fewer branches. Wouldn’t it be easier to ensure that President Trump wouldn’t use one of those branches to harass Mexicans or Muslims? Suppose there were fewer government offices that interacted with the business world. Wouldn’t it be easier to determine whether President Trump had a conflict of interest involving his businesses?

Think about it.

17

Just curious, did you have a 2016 prediction? If so, was that prediction correct or not?

18

Or perhaps the filibuster will not survive the attempts.

19

IANATSOC (I Am Not A Trump Supporter Or Conservative), I’m not much of a Hillary supporter either, and I don’t consider myself liberal mainly because the people labeled “liberal” are far too centrist for me. Politics in general don’t interest me much, except when the shit really hits the fan (like now). Here’s my take on what will happen:

*** People losing health care due to repeal of ACA and/or voucherization of medicare**
Medicare’s going nowhere. Too many old people vote. As for ACA, I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict that ACA won’t be touched, either. Mainly because all congresspeople must realize that affordable healthcare is a HUGE issue to ALL Americans, and stripping them of healthcare will lose their votes. Oh sure, they will continue to make noise and threaten and bluff and bluster, but that’s always been giving lip service to the super-rich commercial interests who fund their campaigns. But all the money in the world won’t help if the voters rebel against you.

*** Trump’s naivety and overemotional responses causing international incidents or possibly military action**
Troubling, but most countries will probably roll their eyes and think, “Those dumb Americans…” Remember, it’s only been 8 years since George W. Bush, so this situation is nothing new.

*** Restrictions on the civil/human rights of minorities and historically oppressed groups (voter suppression, muslim registries, breaking up immigrant families, etc)**
Nothing to worry about. Trump only said all that shit as a means to get elected. (Notice how he never mentions them anymore?)

*** Loss of international respect for America**
How can you lose something that never existed?

*** Higher risk of a terror attack (due to Trump not going to intel briefings, and ISIL possibly knowing Trump will overreact and play into their hands by engaging in a land war)**
The Intelligence Community mostly operates independently of all other agencies, so they’re probably happy that he’s ignoring them. It’s a problem, but much less of a problem than an administration that strongarms them into fabricating evidence against a harmless nation (such as, oh say Iraq) while ignoring those delightful cuddly bin Ladens.

*** Environmental degradation/climate change**
Big, big issue – probably the largest threat Trump poses. On the bright side, states are still free to enact their own environmental laws. Which is good if you live in California… Texas, not so much…

*** Removal of net neutrality**
Another troubling issue, but mostly depends on which corporate interests would benefit from it. The problem here is that most of the unwashed masses have no clue what “net neutrality” means and why it’s important, so unlike ACA, there’s little risk of a voter revolt if it does get repealed.

*** Corruption and conflict of interest between Trump business & public sector**
The funny thing about this election is that in the past, politics have been almost completely ruled by big business interests anyway. All Trump did was remove the middleman. :slight_smile:

*** An increase in income inequality**
Always been a problem no matter who’s in office.

20

Best argument for smaller government I’ve heard in a long time! Especially relating to security and foreign policy.

That doesn’t quite work for our concerns about various domestic policies that aren’t related to security, though.