Contact with the Great Beyond--Psychics like Praagh

[Meatros]

*Originally posted by photopat *
**Meatros, posts like that one are also why I personally draw a distinction between “truth” and “fact.”

Different people believe in different things and to each of them those things are “truth.”

“Facts” on the other hand are indesputable.

Lekatt has his own “truth,” which is completely at odds with “facts.” **

You know that’s a good way of looking at things…

I might have to steal it…

[Meatros]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**Maybe not, but I do know that evolution has not been proven. **

You know wrong.

Go to talkorigins, be amazed at the power of discovery.

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
**Lekatt what would you accept as evidence that JVP is a fake? **

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Papermache Prince *
**Lekatt - you keeping making claims that your words were twisted, changed, taken out of context, misunderstood, yada yada. But you don’t bother posting the message id #s, or, if that’s too hard, the dates. Please - do a little of the work to support your case. **

Whoa, you are the one making claims I lied, how would I know which post you are referring to. If you make accusations you should be prepared to back them up.

Love
Leroy

[lekatt]

*Originally posted by Meatros *
**You know wrong.

Go to talkorigins, be amazed at the power of discovery. **

If evolution had really been proven, which would be impossible, I wouldn’t have to go anywhere. It would have been front page news all over the world. There is no guarantee that one creature progressed into another. Only an educated guess.

Give me a break.

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
**Lekatt what would you accept as evidence that JVP is a fake? **

[NajaNivea]

Originally posted by Lekatt
Whoa, you are the one making claims I lied, how would I know which post you are referring to. If you make accusations you should be prepared to back them up.

Whoa, you are the one with the complete lack of short-term memory. The quotes have been posted multiple times–you ask for evidence, the posts are put up, you ignore them, wait a couple pages, then pretend it never happened and ask for evidence again. He’s not asking you to refer to the posts in which you lied, he’s asking you to provide proof that your words were misconstrued. I’m going to re-post something for you. Ready? Pay attention. No, don’t get distracted by those shiny things. Okay, look here:

Originally posted by Papermache Prince**
Lekatt - you keeping making claims that your words were twisted, changed, taken out of context, misunderstood, yada yada. But you don’t bother posting the message id #s, or, if that’s too hard, the dates. Please - do a little of the work to support your case. **

Now, how you could possibly pretend to think he’s asking you to show us your original lies, I can’t figure out. He’s asking you to provide proof that your words were twisted or misunderstood, blah blah blah, a claim that you made.

I find it so hard to take you seriously anymore. If you can’t remember what happened in this thread a couple days ago, why should I trust your memories of your experiences at all? It certainly doesn’t help your claim that personal experiences are more relevant than scientific observation.

In regards to only quoting relevant passages from your posts to respond to, that’s locally known as making responses easier to read and understand. When someone quotes the entire text of a very long post, and only responds to one small part of it (as you are wont to do) it makes the thread slow to read and it makes it hard(er) to understand your completely nonsensical posts.

Along with everyone else (and no folks, I’m not foolish enough to believe that lekatt will actually respond to a pertinent question) I want to know… why do you think your experience was a near death experience, and not just a spiritual revelation? You were, in fact, sleeping at the time. Nowhere near a hospital. No physical symptoms. Death had nothing to do with it. So why do you classify it as such?

~mixie

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**There is no guarantee that one creature progressed into another. Only an educated guess.
**

Actually there is evidence that has happened while we were looking.
Here’s a link to5 different examples.

There’s as much evidence that this hapened in the past than there is that gravity existed in the past.

What do you think of the evidence that gravity existed in the past?

[PatriotX]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
**Lekatt what would you accept as evidence that JVP is a fake? **

[E-Sabbath]

Leroy! Welcome back. I’m sorry if this seems to be pressing, but you may have missed me asking before:

Your NDE appears to have happened while you were asleep at home. Why do you think it was a NDE and not a religious epiphany? It certainly sounds like one.

[PatriotX]

Lekatt,

1. Why do you think your experience was a near death experience, and not just a spiritual revelation?

2. What do you think of the evidence that gravity existed in the past?

3. What would you accept as evidence that JVP is a fake?

[Meatros]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**If evolution had really been proven, which would be impossible, I wouldn’t have to go anywhere. It would have been front page news all over the world. There is no guarantee that one creature progressed into another. Only an educated guess.

Give me a break. **

So you equate “theories” with educated guesses, eh? The theory of gravity is just a “guess”. I see. Everything in science is just “educated guesses”. Interesting…

BTW-Evolution has been all over the papers since it’s inception. You need to actually look for it. The only people who question it’s validity are those who have no grasp of science.

[Meatros]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
2) What do you think of the evidence that gravity existed in the past?

You know that’s very…Robert Pirsig of you.

I’m currently thinking whether or not I should include some links to what “theories” mean and some evolution info. I don’t want to side track this thread any further though…

[PatriotX]

Meatros, I’ll take that in a nice way.

I think that a brief discussion of what actually constitutes evidence and proof in context of this thread is pertinent.

Hence:

Lekatt what would you accept as evidence that JVP is a fake?

[Meatros]

*Originally posted by SimonX *
**Meatros, I’ll take that in a nice way. **

As you should
Okay, I’ve dug up a source for what a “scientific” theory is. So Lekatt listen up.

From Scientific American

1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law.

Many people learned in elementary school that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty–above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.” No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution–or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter–they are not expressing reservations about its truth.

In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the fact of evolution. The NAS defines a fact as “an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as ‘true.’” The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.

All sciences frequently rely on indirect evidence. Physicists cannot see subatomic particles directly, for instance, so they verify their existence by watching for telltale tracks that the particles leave in cloud chambers. The absence of direct observation does not make physicists’ conclusions less certain.

A bit long, but it sums it up nicely…

[GOM]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**There is no guarantee that one creature progressed into another.
**

You need to be more careful lekatt!!!

You’re gonna ruffle the feathers of the evolutionary fundamentalists. How dare you question their beliefs?!

[PatriotX]

Since incidences of one creature progressing into another have been observed why should we assume that in the past things were different than now?

I “believe” that the evidence that gravity worked in the past when I wasn’t looking, is sufficient to constitute proof.
Who is there who doesn’t believe this?

[Darkrabbit]

*Originally posted by GOM *
…You’re gonna ruffle the feathers of the evolutionary fundamentalists.

What’s an “evolutionary fundamentalist”?

*Originally posted by SimonX *
Lekatt what would you accept as evidence that JVP is a fake?

[GOM]

*Originally posted by lekatt *
**Hi GOM
I like your DNA analysis, it is something new to consider. **

Hello,

Something else to consider, from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2290707.stm
The Wisconsin atomic-scale silicon memory uses 20 atoms to store one bit of information, including the space around the single atom bits.

DNA uses 32 atoms to store information in one half of the chemical base pair that is the fundamental unit that makes up genetic information.
**
“Compared to conventional storage media, both DNA and the silicon surface excel by their storage density,” says Himpsel.
**
DNA was intelligently designed to hold massive amounts of information in an extremely small space. Yet some people still insist that there is no evidence for the Designer. Go figure…

[photopat]

People, people, please. I will give Lekatt credit on one and only one point. From page 15:

I have never made any claim, anywhere, of having psychic abilities worthy of testing.

• Emphasis mine.

So, he did in fact claim to have psychic abilities, just that they weren’t important enough to be tested. Which is, of course, convenient since he can pretend to be psychic all he wants and as soon as somebody suggests a test he can demure and say, no, they’re not that impressive.

Lekatt is playing a word game. If we don’t use exactly the same terms he does he claims we’re “twisting his words” to our own ends. If we do use his words he claims we don’t understand them or are taking them out of context, so the meaning is still twisted. Of course, we generally understand what he’s saying, when it makes any sense, and not everybody is that particular about words like “powers” and “abilities.” (Just for the record, Merriam Webster Online includes this definition of “power”:

1 a (1) : ability to act or produce an effect

So, we can safely equate powesr and abilities. So Lekatt, you’ve claimed to have psychic powers. Deal with it.