I’d argue neo-Nazi is the better term, because it makes it clear that it’s not part of any continuous movement since the 1930s, but is some idiots trying to bring it back.
However, again, **Czarcasm **referred to soneone literally on the organisation that wiped out someone’s family tree. None of these fringe group fascist fools have done anything close to that.
…ancient Rome, the Mongol Empire, Macedonia under Alexander, or the British Empire did not have the ability to bring devastation to the rest of the world at the press of a button.
It could very well refer to Nazi’s, and not the fucking Nazi Party. He literally did not say what you claim. You’ve put words in his mouth. If he had literally said what you claim he said then we wouldn’t be here quibbling about what he said. But he didn’t.
Being a white supremacist is NOT A FUCKING HOBBY. Do you think Nazis stop being Nazis when they take off their MAGA hats and polo shirts?
Wut, you think “Nazi” is some sort of registered trademark? Afraid of stepping on (jackbooted) toes?
I think “Nazi” refers to a specific political party. The general term is “fascist”.
To call an American fascist a Nazi makes about as much sense as calling a Republican a Tory.
Also, I doubt any of the idiots marching with their Nazi flags actually understood the views of the original Nazis, and also they would not agree with them if they did.
Oh come on. You can’t possibly be arguing that we shouldn’t call people who carry Nazi flags, salute and praise Hitler, etc., Nazis.
“Shouldn’t” is pushing it. I’m saying it’s somewhat more accurate not to, and also saying it makes them look more important than they are. Those idiots carrying the flags are pathetic, rather than being part of some massive movement.
General fascism are pretty terrible. It is an unworkable system that depends on oppressing most of the population. Nazis are a specific sect of facism, and nazis are the inspiration of those who are currently marching in white supremacist rallies.
If they just expressed conservative ideas, then you are correct. If they are marching down the streets with carrying crown and tree flags, and chanting “God, King, and Country”, then you’d be pretty silly to not call them Tories.
They probably do not understand all the nuance and history of the Nazi party, but the parts about the hate, they understand that just fine, that’s why they showed up.
So then, you want to educate neo-nazis so they live up to their grand ideals?
They would if they could, and they would love to.
Of course he is. He’s a Nazi sympathizer.
Occam’s Razor.
And not saying it makes them look less dangerous then they are, you fucking Nazi sympathizer.
Steophan, does this mean that we should refer to you as a neo-nazi sympathizer rather than a nazi sympathizer?
I’d rather keep it simple by leaving it at nazi piece of shit, 'cause I really don’t care a fig about your personal sensibilities as to the different flavours of your ilk.
I don’t have a cite for this, but I assume a young black male doesn’t care about the politics of the racist cop that is beating him down or shooting him.
I’m as much of a sympathiser to them as the ACLU is. For at least a couple of reasons, I’d probably have been in the camps in the 1930s. Doesn’t mean I want to sink to their level by trying to ban the free expression of ideas.
Their level has nothing to do with banning free expression of ideas. By and large, the Nazis are free speech advocates, as, to quote xkcd “the most compelling thing [they] can say for [their] position is that it’s not literally illegal to express.” They need freedom of speech to spread their ideas.
Except that speech isn’t working for them, which is why they are no longer just using speech. They started a violent protest, with active guns and specific statements about attacking the police. They were using quasi-military tactics. And they actually had a fucking terrorist on their side come run over a guy.
They were just quietly going away, knowing they had no support from anyone. Everyone in power would condemn them. But then a certain president was elected who deliberately sought them out for support. A man who, if it weren’t for the white supremacists, arguably wouldn’t be president today. Not because everyone who voted for him is a white supremacist, but having racist vote as a bloc for once.
Maybe before you could argue they just aren’t that important, but they clearly are again. They have outsized power compared to their numbers. The president either agrees with them or is afraid to attack them. That’s BAD.
Let’s not kid ourselves: our president is a fascist. I usually say “wannabe fascist,” since he’s usually incompetent at actually getting his fascist ideas across. But he is a fascist. He is authoritarian–he wants to be able to control everything. He is a nationalist, and he rode in on a wave of populism. And now he is unable to disavow Nazism.
Trump is the closest thing the U.S. has had to a Nazi president. So, yes, Nazis are fucking powerful right now. It’s only our efforts to stop them that is working. Because things do not go away if you ignore them. Racism doesn’t go away. Violence doesn’t go away.
We’ve got to do what we can to separate these assholes from any power structure by making sure they realize they are still completely unwanted. There are heroes right now who provoke them to violence, which then requires those who would otherwise support them to disavow them.
Shove these assholes back into their little caves until they actually die out from lack of converts. So they can’t rise again with someone using the same tactics Trump did.
And yet, when we have actual examples of how the (neo-)Nazis are a violent movement, you keep pretending they aren’t. You go on about their right to speech.
Why is it that you support Nazi’s right to speech, but try to take it away from Antifa and BLM, both organizations that fight what Nazis stand for? Why do violent spoilers invalidate them?
You also continue to do what a I may call a neo-strawman. Yes, there exists people who think all cops are bad. However, they cannot be found in this thread. That is an easily knocked down belief that no one who has argued with you here has actually held.
The problem is stuff you’ve said before, like acting like being able to question authority being a bad thing. I said that we can always question authority. You made fun of me for that concept. People here point out bad cops and how the legal system lets them get away with bad stuff. Then you use the legal system as proof the cops weren’t bad.
The reality seems to be that you support all cops. And thus anyone who doesn’t support all cops is seen as hating all cops, because you can’t handle the nuanced position of “there are some bad cops, and other cops who defend them. And a legal system that lets the bad cops get away with it.”
The thing you told me revealed that you are an authoritarian. So your motivated reasoning leads you to condemn BLM (who are just fighting bad cops) and Antifa (anti-fascists and thus anti-authoritarian) but defend (neo-)Nazis as just using speech.
When they clearly aren’t.
The ACLU is reconsidering their opinion on defending Nazis, so that is one less thing you have to hide behind.
It is good that you don’t want to sink to the level of doing something that no one has suggested we do.
The problem is, is that you don’t want to just not ban nazi rallies, you want to make going to a nazi rally entirely consequence free.
The reason that there are not as many people showing up to these rallies is because they are afraid. They are afraid that their friends or family or co-workers or bosses will find out that they are supporting nazi ideology. They are also afraid that violent counter protests may show up and hurt them. They are on the run, which is where nazis should always be.
If you get your wish, and make it so that a person can march with a swastika on their flag and arm band, and chant hateful and violent rhetoric with no consequences to them whatsoever, then we will probably be seeing more of this.
When people march for causes they believe in, then they take those risks. People took the risk of being associated with gay pride marches in the 80s, to try to promote rights to other people. There were people fired and beaten for marching with them, for expressing their opinion.
What you want is that if a Nazi goes down the street, they have more rights than that of someone supporting the rights of others.
Between your love of licking police boots, and your desire to see more nazi rallies, it is no wonder why you get labeled as a nazi sympathizer. And when your only defense against that is to point out that the nazi party does not exist in the form it previously did, that only gets you labeled as a neo-nazi sympathizer.
Just because you see yourself as one of those who the nazis would exterminate does not mean that you do not sympathize with their methods, it seems that the one and only criticism that you can levy at them is that you are one of their targets, and as long as they target others, you are cool with that.
My own, as I’m in one of the groups the allies didn’t consider worth fighting for. Look up what happened to gay survivors sometime.