This needs to be screamed from the rooftops. But replace “seems likely to” with “will”.
QFT. My gf’s two elderly aunties (>95 years of age) are in a nursing home, (fully vaccinated) have tested COVID-19 positive 24 hours after my gf visited to say goodbye. Pins/needles now for us.
I don’t disagree with your logic but it’s a hard sell if it pans out their are significant side effects.
Now they’re saying there may be a different blood clotting issue with J&J which is something that greatly affects me.
I"m sorry, but I file “I got xxx after I was vaccinated” under the heading of “anonymous anecdotal bullshit” for the most part.
Some of it may have a basis in fact, and research should follow up on that. There are actual known side effects from vaccines.
Many of them are either (in psychology-speak) "“an inevitable consequence of the mind searching for causal structure in reality.” Alternatively, they are complete bullshit being spread by anti-vaxxers, especially when reported on the internet as happening to “a friend’s cousin’s girlfriend” or other some such nebulous relationship.
This is why we have VAERS. Because just through chance, lots of people will have bad stuff happen to them shortly after they are vaccinated. But if we track all those bad after-effects in an organized way, we can statistically analyze them and determine which are actually more common than chance, and which appear to be chance.
And we test different vaccines and different doses of vaccines to try to find the ones that give the best combination of robust immunity with modest side effects. The modern Pertussis vaccine is way less nasty than the ones we used to have, for instance, and works just as well.
They are saying that there are two studies they are looking at regarding the VTE issue. One seems to show that VTE is a rare side effect of the J&J vaccine. The other study says that is not the case. Until they are able to dig further, they are currently recommending:
it is described that VTE has been observed rarely following vaccination with COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen and that the risk of VTE should be considered for individuals with increased risk factors for thromboembolism (blood clots).
I have no issue with this. If someone is at risk for blood clots, give them Pfizer or Moderna until that further research is completed.
OK - But what if the person received a “first jab” with J&J. I’ve seen nothing on them proceeding to use one of the other vaccines for the (for want of a better term) “third jab”.
That’s between them, their governmental guidelines and their health practitioner. Based on everything I’ve seen, if I was at risk for blood clots, my personal order of preference in your given situation would be:
- Moderna
- Pfizer
- J& J
- AZ
and falling far far behind those would be no shot at all. If I have a risk for blood clots, I REALLY don’t want COVID.
This. Mild covid often looks like a simple respiratory bug, but serious killer covid seems to be mostly a blood clotting disorder.
Can you cite that. I was under the impression it was mostly a failure of the lungs. I’ve tried to convey how horrible a way this is to die. Here’s an article by doctors who have witnessed it..
When people say if it’s their time to go then it’s their time I bring up how horrible it is to die like this and what would they do to avoid a state of prolonged suffocation.
some odds and ends:
Why Blood Clots Are a Major Problem in Severe Covid-19 | Science | Smithsonian Magazine
What Is Known About COVID-19 and Abnormal Blood Clotting | Newsroom | Weill Cornell Medicine
What Does COVID Do to Your Blood? | Johns Hopkins Medicine
There have been a bunch of really creepy accounts – of a surgeon trying to remove a blood clot from the brain of the covid patient, and watching a new one form in real time, to funeral home staff who can’t drain the blood of covid victims because it clots so badly. I’ve read about kidney damage caused by massive clotting, and of course strokes.
People with covid do get lung failure, but that’s sometimes from clots, too – clots damage the alveoli so they can’t transfer oxygen into the blood.
I didn’t know any of this; thanks!
I’ve had this discussion with my mother several times. And you know, if she has a heart attack, I’m okay not trying to treat that. But I’m not okay with letting her catch covid.
Puzzlegal, that’s a very good read. It does however, raise another question. I’m not posing it as a reason not to take the vaccine. Could the long term effects of the vaccine(s) create the same clotting reaction that goes undetected. It’s not like we’ve done autopsies on the 700K people who died so far. Clotting could be a bigger problem than we think. And is there a crossover issue with the vaccine(s). How do we monitor for this.
I’ve always thought there might be more to the virus than was initially reported. Your cites indicate that’s the case. So it makes me wary of taking an “all in” approach to vaccination. We know there is a solid short term benefit to vaccines. We have no way of knowing if there are long term risks. It’s one thing to give it to the elderly. They don’t have a long term issue with it because they are at the end stage of their life cycle. It’s another to give it to young children if they are not in the risk factor category.
Wait, are you not vaccinated?
Look, I may never in a million years agree with you politically, but I don’t want you to suffer from this shit. If you’re not yet vaccinated, change that.
I’m vaccinated. I’ve also been through the mill with blood clots so the issue stands out more for me. It’s both a good reason to get the vaccine for the short term and possibly a reason of concern for the long term.
I think most people believe that there are no consequences to medical treatments. They’re either good or bad. That is not true. Many of the treatments we take have side effects. I can give an example of one that I took. I forget the name of the medicine but there was an obvious side effect of muscle cramps. I NEVER got them prior to taking it. I stopped taking the medicine because I figured it was a heart attack waiting to happen. It was pulled off the market a month later because people were dying of… heart attacks.
Countering the trope “we can’t know about potential long-term effects of Covid vaccines” is the knowledge that any significant side effects of vaccines have historically cropped up within a couple of months of immunization.
“Because of the knowledge gained with other vaccines, the FDA required companies making COVID-19 vaccines to follow trial participants for a minimum of eight weeks before they could submit their data for approval. Likewise, the participants in the vaccine trials continue to be followed even though the vaccines have been approved for use.”
We’d have signals by now if an untoward effect was occurring in the long term.
Eight weeks is not long term. Again, I’m not promoting anti-vaccination. I’m listing a concern that may help target who gets the vaccination. It’s not a foreign idea. We based distribution on target groups who needed it most.
Again, that’s just the period of time in which we can expect to see any deleterious effects of vaccines - not the monitoring period.
The phase 3 clinical trials for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (for example) got underway back in July 2020. Followup of those participants has been ongoing.
It’s not credible to argue that years from now, those people may start keeling over from unexpected vaccine-related ailments.
*besides, those long-term effects might be beneficial.
It is credible to acknowledge that different demographic groups have different risk factors. You are making statements that you can’t back up regarding the long term safety of the vaccine and applying it to all age groups and risk factors. I gave a personal example of a drug I was taking that was pulled from the market because the long term effects were responsible for killing people.