Coping with a violent, aggressive child in school

Factual Questions
1

It’s been a long, long while since I’ve logged here at SDMB, but I was wondering of any of the Teeming Millions had any experience, personally or professionally, dealing with an under-7 years old child diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder / Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (ADD/ADHD) – and how that child was dealt with at school (or home.)

As a first year teacher, I’m currently teaching a hyperactive and frankly, violent little boy who’s been transferred into my room at the end of September. Teaching him is exhausting. His parents are at their wits’ end. He’s about to be expelled from this school. He’s in kindergarten!

The interesting thing - just revealed - is that the parents had their son diagnosed as having ADD/ADHD over a year ago at his preschool but have said nothing to me about it up until now. I only saw the ADHD documentation (buried in the back of his file, inside another envelope) about an hour ago. Based of what I’m reading, the parents have NOT followed a key provision in the reports’ conclusion: to share the findings with their family physician and seek possible medical treatment (Ritalin, probrably.) Maybe it’s because they can’t afford a doctor. Maybe they distrust doctors or the drug, Ritalin. I’m not sure.

What I’m asking the Teeming Millions:

  • anectdotal, factual experiences about the effectiveness of drug treatments with Ritalin and other stimulants

  • the effectiveness of homeopathic remedies as an alternative to the drug treatment

  • dealing with parents reluctant/distrustful about committing a child to drug therapy

  • from teachers: examples of behavior/discipline plans applied to ADHD children

Web sites, books and journal citations welcome.

It’s my first year teaching and I’m looking to present the parents with at least one new behavior plan and some recommendations before the onset of Thanksgiving Break next week.

If you log on to reply, 'sankewberrymuch. I’ll check back on Monday afternoon.

2

I am not a doctor, but I am a teacher.

I have had an 11 year old pupil with ADD, whose parents didn’t tell the School and weren’t using any drugs. We couldn’t understand why he was so silly in class. Eventually I found out and persuaded the parents (who I knew reasonably well) to take the medical advice they’d been given. Ritalin made an appreciable difference immediately, and the pupil is doing really well.

I have another pupil (in my weekend chess club) with ADHD. His mother sits in, although the main symptom seems to be incredible leaps of imagination.

I understand that parents get worried by ADD, but I think they are extremely foolish to deceive the school.

I don’t see the benefit of homeopathic remedies - aren’t they just untested?

3

At age 7 and still in kindergarden he is possibly a bit behind the curve intellectually and may not be receptive to extended rationales as to why he should “do the right thing”.

I have an 11 year boy with attention span problems who can occasionally be determined to get his own way. He understands the demarcation lines between acceptable and unacceptable behavior very clearly, however, and although easily distractable is not a discipline problem of any kind in school. Some of this may be adaptive socialization but he also knows neither I nor his mother will tolerate any nonsense like this for even an instant.

Aggressive is one thing, overly aggressive is quite another. Having an “aggressive” male child is a perfectly normal circumstance but there are common sense limits to toleration of this behavior. I am curious as to the precise behavior you are describing as “violent and aggressive”. Is he annoying and intimidating the other children through obnoxious behavior and yelling etc. or is he actually hitting other kids?
If his parents will not medicate him one possible solution is to put him in a class with an intimidating male teacher whom he will fear and has the authority and permission to discipline him which is probably what’s going to happen if he’s transferred to a special class or school for discipline problems. Sans drugging him I don’t know if there is clean, feel good PC solution to this problem.

4

Well, it’s possible that everyone has a long road ahead of them. With the comments about violence, I would actually suggest that the parents get the kid checked by a psychiatist.

My kid is hyper (deliberately using the non-technical term) and we struggled through the last few months of pre-school, then Kindergarten and first grade with a program of Ritalin and discipline (discipline = controlled and structured environment, not punishment). In second grade he completely lost it and was placed in a Severe Behavioral Handicap program. (Smaller class, more structure.) He got through second grade, but struggled again in third, finally being expelled for violence just before the year ended. For fourth grade, we were able to get him into a specialized school, where a greater level of experience/training among the staff and a psychiatric evaluation leading to a different mix of drugs helped him to turn it around completely in 15 months. He is back in a regular school (in a specials class) and is slowly working toward normalcy.

In the last year, I have watched his classmates in the specials class. Some are able to use the discipline to refocus their attention, but the ones who are actually violent seem to be following my son’s course toward a higher need for specialist intervention.

My impression is that a “mere” ADHD kid will act out or behave uncontrollably, but if there is actual violence, there is more going on. (Examples: acting out–throwing pencils or books, temper tantrums, refusing to stay in his seat; violence–aggression or attacks on people, threats of violence.)

I am not a medical or behavioral professional.
I am not claiming that your student needs psychiatric help.
I am relating that my experience suggests certain avenues to pursue in looking to help the child, with anecdotal examples to support my suggestions.

Two points that must be made:
Ritalin (or any other psychotrope) can only be a tool to help the child control himself. It cannot be used as a magic pill that will end all the problems.
Any treatment must include a structured program to help the child learn to control himself and take responsibility for his actions. (Even when my son has missed a dose, he is never allowed to blame bad behavior on the lack of meds. Fidgeting and other symptoms of ADD will be tolerated, but outbursts will not.)

Having said all that, my only reaction to parents who have an actual diagnosis and don’t follow up on it is “WTF!”.

5

I have it on good authority that you might find these websites informative.

http://www.add.org

6

I have worked in Behavioral Health for many years before starting a private practice then teaching at a local Community College. I have done much research on the subject at hane and have found mixed results.

First of all in the late eighties Ritalin was starting to gain a lot of momentum ad then into the ninties Doctors were prescribing it like candy to children who were acting up in class and had a generally poor attention span. Such phrases were common at the time " Mommy it feels like someone took the cotton out of my ears" and " Mommy can I stay up and read for a while". These are just a few of the more famous ones.

As far as your case goes I’ll say that obvioulsy I can not make any sort of diagnosis or any other such statements having not had enough information from the get go. But I can tell you some non-medicinal treatments for ADD/ADHD. As well as some good options for the familt.

First off Behavior therapy mixed with a well watched drug regimine can be highly effective and worth while in the short run. This particular method does have some draw backs, especially if the family is against drug intervention. But a Behavior therapist can be key in the treatment of ADD/ADHD. They work on changing the behaviors through many many means coupled with a medication this can be highly effective.

As far as a non-drug approach. The one thing that has to be done first off is a comprehensive look at the childs diet. WHat is he eating, when is he eating? Questions like this should be asked. Secondly there is a dietary supplement called Blue-Green Algae that has proved to be highly successful in treating ADD/ADHD. ALPHA AND OMEGA SUN is a freeze dried premium blue-green algae that boosts a bodied vitamin and mineral levels to close to a hundred percent. It is all natural and has a wonderful side effect for children with ADD/ADHD. This supplement when taken correctly actually gets the same reaction that a mild doses of ritalin would have on children and adults.

ADD/ADHD when diagnosed properly is a increase or decrease in seretonin levels in the brain. This can be caused from an actual chemical imbalence or thru dietary problems. Of course this is an over simplification of the ADD/ADHD disorder, but I think you get the point. The algae seems to boost vitamin and mineral percentages in the body resulting in an equalibrium that is very beneficial to children and adults. There are documented results that can be viewed and physicans that will be more than willing to discuss the medicinal uses of the algae. It is a thought. Check out CELLTECH.COM and you should be able to find a name and number. Having not the time to do it now. I will check when I get home and check back on this post. Good luck you must be a very patient person. It is a virtue.:slight_smile:

7

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll share anyway. It may be worth your time to investigate. I have friends who have a daughter that has a mild case of ADHD, and have managed to control her condition solely by modifying her diet. They’ve discovered that by removing wheat and dairy from her diet, her behavior is dramatically different. If she has a glass of milk, she’s uncontrollable for hours, but if she stays away from the wheat and dairy, she’s much more normal. She’s still incredibly active and has what I would say a somewhat shorter attention span than the average child, but nowhere near what she’s like when she goes off the diet.

Anyway, it may be worth trying to find out if the kid has a sensitivity to any particular foods.

8

Glee:

I couldn’t agree more. Apathy and denial are difficult to overcome.

astro: To respond to your comments in reverse: 1) I’d be extremely suspicious of any ‘clean, feel good PC solution’ to anything like the behavior problems I’m witnessing, even if Proferred By Cecil Himself. Nonetheless I can’t ignore the insistence of some people who have anectdotal tales of diet changes as especially effective in remedying some misbehavior. 2) I am an intimidating male teacher, the only one in the lower primary grades at my school. The school district I work in, alas, outlawed corporal punishment years ago following the onset of several lawsuits filed by parents in years past. As a first year teacher, I could be dismissed for even alluding to corporal punishment. The schools here are also severely skittish about even allowing parents to discipline their own children on school property. 3) He’s actually hitting other kids. And spitting. And shoving. And stealing. And yelling. And throwing things. And crawling under desks. And standing on furniture. 4) Actually – this is the frustrating thing: the boy is HIGHLY intelligent for his age: scored 3rd overall in the testing of kindergarten benchmarks with 75 5-year-olds at my school and 43rd in the whole district. I feel he is calculating enough even in the throes of ADHD to know exactly what he is doing.

Tomndebb:

Agreed. There IS more going on. Not drug abuse or parental abuse, as far as I can see. Perhaps some media emulation, but I hate to use that old cop-out.

See: I have the structured behavior plan in place, just not the medicine that may help curb the hyperactivity and agression. I don’t think he can do it without the pills.

As I read the report, I said that too, but I included the syllables and vowels.

manny: Thanx for the links.

Phlosphr:

I can ask the parents or do another home visit. In the meantime, what foods in his diet might be a contributing factor in his misbehavior? Caffeine? Dairy? Carbonated sodas? I trust we’re not still blaming all this on white sugar.

Hmmmm. Thanks. Sounds a little ‘Whole Earth Catalog’ but not unworthy of investigation.

Thanks! I’m not too egotositical to admit he might be beyond my help. I just don’t think think he’s beyond any help.

P.S.: In a weird twist, this child is absent from school today. Crossing my fingers and hoping he’s seeing a doctor.

9

I was not actually thinking of abuse (and certainly not thinking of emulating violence in movies/TV). I was actually thinking of various physically based mental issues. We don’t know why my son has the problems he does. (Possibly it was substance abuse by his birth mother, but nothing that can be clearly documented.) We do know that after one ditz psychologist who was no help, we were able to link up with an excellent psychologist, but it was only after a psychiatrist was able to prescribe a specific set of medicines that he was finally able to get himself under control.

If it helps to give you hope for the future, this describes my son. (There was not much hitting and he only went through a month-long period of stealing, but then he offset that by sporadic biting.)

I’d drag the parents in for a conference, find out if they are in denial or if there is some other problem, then strongly recommend a psychiatrist. Enlist the county or regional school district mental health pros for support. If the parents are afraid of cost, the county can often come up with funds. If the parents are afraid of stigma, the county folks might be able to help with that issue, as well.

One point to begin raising with the principal, now, is that this kid needs a special environment. If you are not trained to deal with him, you are not going to be successful. If it did turn out to be a food allergy–and I have heard quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that some of these situations can be–then you and he might survive the year. If he needs psychiatric help, then he needs to be with a teacher trained to deal with him. My son’s first grade teacher was outstanding, but she did not have the training to help him get turned around.
(It is just as well that corporal punishment is not an option. I can attest that it would have no affect. We were not into beating our kid, but certain actions did evoke a spanking response. It did let him know where the lines were, but it was only after the therapy and medicine that he was able to keep himself from crossing those lines.)

10

tomndebb said:

This is interesting, and I quote it not so much to take issue with Tom (although see below), but because it spurred my response. I also have a child with ADHD. He is 8, and was diagnosed only two weeks ago. His main problem has always been impulse control. He has a very low frustration threshold, and if he becomes upset about something, he is prone to tantrums out of all proportion to the stimulus (lying on the floor, screaming, throwing things simply because he didn’t want to do a spelling assignment). His classroom had to be vacated recently because he was throwing things and it was feared it would be a danger to the other students.

He’s been taking a very mild dose (5 mg) of Ritalin for a little more than a week now, and the change has been dramatic. As others have noted here, it is not a “magic bullet” that makes him compliant and focused. But it helps him keep the minor distractions/frustrations minor, so he can use the coping skills he’s been learning.

He’s been in therapy for a number of years, and left the self-contained class last year. He continues to see a psychologist on a weekly basis. What is heartbreaking is that we have a very stable, loving family, and this boy wants to behave. But, then, I’d love to be able to see things at a distance without them going all fuzzy. I need to wear glasses. My son needs to take Ritalin. When I wear my glasses, I don’t have to squint to see. When he takes his medication, he can deal with his frustrations more easily.

It is unconscionable that your student’s parents would not get some kind of intervention. Investigation is needed for you and your admins to make recommendations re: therapy. Often, the district helps pay the freight. YMMV. But if this child is disruptive and potentially dangerous, the other students are at risk, and you as the teacher cannot allow your classroom to be disrupted.

I would recommend consulting with the school psychologist or therapist, or someone in the district who may be able to advise you (and stand behind you when confronting the parents). You need them, your principal, the superintendent, and anyone else in the district you can muster up to convince the parents that it is in the best interests of their child to get him some help. If, as you say in the OP, they are at their “wits end”, they just may be unaware of intervention programs. Be a true Doper and help to eradicate their ignorance.

And good luck. I hope you can help this family. You sound like an extremely caring individual and a good teacher. As the husband of one, I can spot 'em a mile away (if I have my glasses on, that is).

11

I do not envy you the position you are in. Thanks for caring and worrying about this child.

First thought: kindergarten entry is variable–he could sit out a year (while seeking treatment) at this stage and no seem “behind.” So if it comes to that, don’t worry that he’s lost.

Second thought: My niece is going through a therapy that these parents may be more comfortable with. It’s new and only partly tested, but is promising anecdotally and some private practice therapists are using it. It has allowed my niece to go off her medication, and her teachers notice a huge difference. Here’s more info: http://www.canoe.ca/Health9912/22_adhd.html

12

I would see this as acting out, rather than violence, as I distinguished in my first post. Unmedicated, he was unable to control his temper, but unless he was aiming stuff at people or chasing them down to be sure he hit them, I would not put that in the violence column. (The action is violent and can be unsafe, but the intent is not.)

Of course, I am not a doctor of medicine or psychology, and my definitions are only my parental opinions.

13

I can tell you only one thing about your question, and that is that homeopathy will have as much effect on this as it does any other condition that they have a remedy for, and that is none whatsoever.

14

tomndebb said:

You’re right. I’ve heard the term “acting out” used to describe his tantrums, and from all that I’ve heard, his outbursts are not targeting anyone. I didn’t think to clarify earlier, nor did I mean to imply that your earlier post was incorrect. I only wanted to share the experiences of my son having violent outbursts. But as you’ve pointed out, there’s a big difference with regards to intent.

I also have no medical or psychological training, and was relating experiential anecdotes. Your definitions resulting from your parenting opinions are both valid and valuable (as are all your posts, IMHO). So much of dealing with ADD/ADHD seems to be subjective, I’m finding out. Still, there appears to be some common behavior traits in those who have it.

15

I would talk to the principal about this first. It is not something I would take into my own hands.

16

No problem. I did not feel that you were attacking my position. I just thought that maybe I had not been clear enough in distinguishing between actions that might respond (in my totally non-professional opinion) to a simple regimen of Ritalin (or whatever) or diet changes and actions that might require more professional intervention from the psych folks.

17

I understand, Tom. Point taken. Still, I think that working with a psychologist or therapist of some kind would be useful in conjunction with medications or diet changes.

The thread which I started re: my son’s diagnosis of ADHD is http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=97329 .

In it, another member relates his experiences as an individual diagnosed with ADD as an adult. One of the most telling things he says is that the re-learning or readjusting was the most difficult thing. I would think that it would be especially difficult for a child, who has much to learn in the techniques of self-discipline under the best conditions.

While we know that Ritalin or other prophylactic measures help screen out distractions, it still remains for the person to learn how best to focus and/or retain control. I feel, for my son, his therapy is one avenue for helping him learn this.

For a child who targets other individuals with violence, my opinion is that therapy be a pre-condition to allowing that child in the classroom.

18

tomndebb: Actually, what you say DOES give me a great deal of hope, something I want to share with this child’s parents when we meet again tomorrow after school.

handy: I’ve been meeting with my school administrators and counseling staff, who are all well aware of what I’m doing. (Even telling my boss today about my soliciting advice, anonymously, via the internet, on a message board, in addition to my other researches: that raised my principal’s eyebrow.)

The easiest thing to do will be to shuffle this boy off to another school with a damning report of his behavioral problems where he’s guaranteed to run up against a wall and be labeled a troublemaker. I’m trying to avoid that.

DAVEW0071: Thank you for the link to your thread (I tried to find something like this before I posted and missed it, somehow) and double thank you for that GREAT analogy about fuzzy vision: eyeglasses :: outbursts : Ritalin. Both my student’s father and I wear glasses and when I casually dropped that in conversation whan he came to pick up his son this afternoon, he nodded as if he got it. Still doesn’t mean he’s overcome his resistance re: medication, but I’ll throw every thing I got at him until I get a chink in his armor.

Stupendous Man: I’m game for trying homopatheic remedies with regards to diet and some herbal and/or vitamin supplements. But the minute they break out crystal pendants, powedered whale testicles and the Gregorian Chants CDs, I’m gone.

CrankyAsAnOldMan: sadly, his sitting out kindergarten is not a viable option for this child’s family. I am looking into the possibility of having him do half-day kindergarten, with occassional full-day experiences, and giving him supplemental worksheets he can do at home.

19

Don’t knock 'em 'til you’ve tried 'em. :wink:

20

tomndebb: Actually, what you say DOES give me a great deal of hope, something I want to share with this child’s parents when we meet again tomorrow after school.

handy: I’ve been meeting with my school administrators and counseling staff, who are all well aware of what I’m doing. (Even telling my boss today about my soliciting advice, anonymously, via the internet, on a message board, in addition to my other researches: that raised my principal’s eyebrow.)

The easiest thing to do will be to shuffle this boy off to another school with a damning report of his behavioral problems where he’s guaranteed to run up against a wall and be labeled a troublemaker. I’m trying to avoid that.

DAVEW0071: Thank you for the link to your thread (I tried to find something like this before I posted and missed it, somehow) and double thank you for that GREAT analogy about fuzzy vision: eyeglasses :: outbursts : Ritalin. Both my student’s father and I wear glasses and when I casually dropped that in conversation whan he came to pick up his son this afternoon, he nodded as if he got it. Still doesn’t mean he’s overcome his resistance re: medication, but I’ll throw every thing I got at him until I get a chink in his armor.

Stupendous Man: I’m game for trying homopatheic remedies with regards to diet and some herbal and/or vitamin supplements. But the minute they break out crystal pendants, powedered whale testicles and the Gregorian Chants CDs, I’m gone.

CrankyAsAnOldMan: sadly, his sitting out kindergarten is not a viable option for this child’s family. I am looking into the possibility of having him do half-day kindergarten, with occassional full-day experiences, and giving him supplemental worksheets he can do at home.