Cornell frat suspended for game in which men compete to have sex with overweight women

[raventhief]

@nearwildheaven

My point is that the problem with this frat would solve itself if women refused to date any of the men who belong to it.

Yes, now that women know about it. Not when it was still a private humiliation for women who may have experienced it (in terms of being abused).

Eta: you presented this as a way for women to have avoided it, simply by avoiding places that they shouldn’t be. …how would they have known?

[Isamu]

@octopus

Well, having consensual sex with another is none of your business.

You don’t know that. I can think of plenty of cases where sex between two other people is ‘my’ business.

@octopus

Even if it’s motivated in part by a contest. Why is it the university’s place to stick its nose in private affairs?

The university doesn’t want to have its public image tainted by disgusting behavior of it’s students.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@octopus

Well, having consensual sex with another is none of your business. Even if it’s motivated in part by a contest. Why is it the university’s place to stick its nose in private affairs?

Their nose is already there. Do you agree that they should get their nose out and stop facilitating Greek organizations?

[Bullitt]

@raventhief

Yes, now that women know about it. Not when it was still a private humiliation for women who may have experienced it (in terms of being abused).

Eta: you presented this as a way for women to have avoided it, simply by avoiding places that they shouldn’t be. …how would they have known?

Scenario: A horny, awkward, dorky college boy wants to get laid. He sees a prospective girl at a party, approaches and talks to her, schmoozes her, and woos her. They have consensual sex, either that same night or in the coming days or weeks.

This consensual sex happens every day.

For all we know, the girl could be wanting to score with a loser boy to then brag and laugh about it with her friends.

[Dangerosa]

Here is the thing, sex isn’t consensual if that consent was gotten under false pretenses. If you are a twin, and you have sex with your twin’s wife pretending to be him, you’ve raped her. If you have sex with a woman feigning respect for her, and it turns out to be a bad joke, you’ve had sex under false pretenses. Legally its nearly impossible to prove, but you don’t get to have sex with someone by lying to them and call it consensual, any more than I get to see you a house that regularly gets water in the basement and lie about it and say “well, you bought it.”

Bullitt, if that girl does humiliate that guy in front of her friends, what she did is WRONG. If he feels like he still got the better end of the deal because he got laid and that was worth the humiliation, that’s good for him, but she was still behaving in an immoral fashion.

[octopus]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Their nose is already there. Do you agree that they should get their nose out and stop facilitating Greek organizations?

Sure. People can form their own associations.

@Dangerosa

Here is the thing, sex isn’t consensual if that consent was gotten under false pretenses. If you are a twin, and you have sex with your twin’s wife pretending to be him, you’ve raped her. If you have sex with a woman feigning respect for her, and it turns out to be a bad joke, you’ve had sex under false pretenses. Legally its nearly impossible to prove, but you don’t get to have sex with someone by lying to them and call it consensual, any more than I get to see you a house that regularly gets water in the basement and lie about it and say “well, you bought it.”

Bullitt, if that girl does humiliate that guy in front of her friends, what she did is WRONG. If he feels like he still got the better end of the deal because he got laid and that was worth the humiliation, that’s good for him, but she was still behaving in an immoral fashion.

Wait, so wearing makeup to cover up nasty skin and deceive a potential mate is rape? Driving a rented car and wearing a fake Rolex in order to portray wealth one does not have is rape? I think what you are suggesting is a minority view.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@octopus

Sure. People can form their own associations.

So then, your complaint shouldn’t be that the government is policing sex between adults (by virtue of punishing the organization involved): your complaint should be that the government is in the position to withhold funds from people who shouldn’t have ever gotten them in the first place.

[Derleth]

@Dangerosa

Here is the thing, sex isn’t consensual if that consent was gotten under false pretenses.

Just to be clear, non-consensual sex is rape, correct?

If you have sex with a woman feigning respect for her, and it turns out to be a bad joke, you’ve had sex under false pretenses.

This logic means that gold-diggers (or, at least, the more common dishonest variety of the species) are rapists, conditional on our agreement on the answer to my first question.

[octopus]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

So then, your complaint shouldn’t be that the government is policing sex between adults (by virtue of punishing the organization involved): your complaint should be that the government is in the position to withhold funds from people who shouldn’t have ever gotten them in the first place.

So fraternities are paid for by the government?

[Haldurson]

@octopus

The whole concept is trashy. Doesn’t mean it’s the university’s job to get involved.

It’s their responsibility to keep the university a safe place for everyone attending – and the whole thing could be argued to be criminal, which means that not getting involved would open themselves up to an expensive lawsuit. By tolerating, they are creating an unsafe environment for all of their students.

Furthermore, schools are supposed to be educational, and not teaching people everything that is wrong with the practice would be incompetent. And it is wrong on so many levels.

Unfortunately, universities have to deal with students as they find them. When they are dangerously uneducated, to the point that they are doing crap like this, NOT getting involved would be criminally negligent.

[AK84]

@Dangerosa

Here is the thing, sex isn’t consensual if that consent was gotten under false pretenses. If you are a twin, and you have sex with your twin’s wife pretending to be him, you’ve raped her. If you have sex with a woman feigning respect for her, and it turns out to be a bad joke, you’ve had sex under false pretenses. Legally its nearly impossible to prove, but you don’t get to have sex with someone by lying to them and call it consensual, any more than I get to see you a house that regularly gets water in the basement and lie about it and say “well, you bought it.”

.

Just to be clear, your first senario is accurate, the second one is bullshit.Consent obtained under misrepresentation or false pretenses is absolutley valid. GThe exception is when someone lies about their specific identity.

Pretending to be a woman’s husband; criminal
Pretending to like Keats to get laid, when you just read up on him on wikipedia; Not criminal.

[actualliberalnotoneofthose]

I don’t want to make light of this, but if any sororities want to compete to fuck the least attractive men, please let me know.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@octopus

So fraternities are paid for by the government?

:rolleyes: No.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

Read this article for some ideas on how frats get subsidized. One major way they get subsidized is through land grants or nominal leases.

I’d rather my public lands not be given away to private social clubs, thank you.

[octopus]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Read this article for some ideas on how frats get subsidized. One major way they get subsidized is through land grants or nominal leases.

I’d rather my public lands not be given away to private social clubs, thank you.

Thanks for the link. Well, you raise a good point and I’d have to agree with you.