The issue I think embedded here is the old one of whether colleges with students who don’t live at home should be acting in part for or in lieu of the parents. You can make the argument the college has legitimate reasons to act against the fraternity assuming nothing of the sort and ‘everyone involved is an adult’ but in fact not really, even if technically/legally yes.
On this basis I see no problem with it. It’s stupid behavior by, basically, kids against other kids and adults are supposed to squelch that where they can. If the frat has no legal basis to challenge that, and I guess they don’t, all the better.
If it was real adults I’d still condemn the behavior, but might feel differently about an institution they were operating under telling them to play more nicely.
No, the issue here is that is the college a community that upholds community standards according to the code of conduct and the charter of greek organizations.
This isn’t kids, its young adults. The college is not acting as their parents, its acting as a community. The community does not want to be harmed by the actions of a few yahoos. They have reserved the right in chartering the fraternity and within the student code of conduct to take action against this behavior as being harassing and/or sexually abusive.
You’re free to disagree but I’ll stick with my opinion and not accept yours as fact you seem to phrase it as . College kids are only technically adults, IMO. So the adults overseeing a ‘community’ of ‘young adults’ IMO have more reason to get involved in ways which wouldn’t be as appropriate if it was real adults all around, the extent to which ‘the community’ acts collectively against stuff that is not a crime (it’s not criminal harassment or abuse to say gratuitously cruel things about people behind their backs they might find out about, it’s just not right).
So again I’d lean more toward the opinion of those saying the college overstepped if it wasn’t a college but a full fledged adult setting. That’s not an amateur legal opinion who could win a civil case either way in this or any different hypothetical case. It also doesn’t depend on ‘standards were promulgated’ because the extent to which you collectively force people to adopt behavior standards beyond following the law also depends who you’re dealing with. I have much less trouble with that if it’s not fully mature people, and college students by and large are not as a practical matter, IMO.
I think the job of society as a whole should be to reduce these appalling rape and sexual assault rates on our college campuses {NIJ Report} … but Slate knows it’s easier to read about frat pranks … I feel sorry for these women but 1 in 5 will be felony victims, a felony for which the perpetrator is never prosecuted …
Waiting for the colleges to act may be a waste of time … I have no idea how to get little boys to keep their fingers to themselves …
The state is already getting involved by giving this private boys’ club any sort of official recognition. Octopus, if you’re all aflutter about the nanny state, the only thing that makes sense is to recommend removing all official recognition from all private boys’ and girls’ clubs: there’s fuckall reason that the government should have any involvement with the Greek system, except to process the forms they file like everyone else and to punish its criminal and civil transgressions like everyone else.
But that’s not the world we’re in: we’re in a world where frats are intimately intertwined with state functions. As long as that’s the case, frats need to take their lumps when they get out of line: if a penny of my tax dollars go toward facilitating their existence, they can damn well behave according to standards the public sets.
Boys will be boys and until the boys reach some point of maturity, society just needs to accept that, even if women are sexually abused in the process. Got it.
In a similar discussion on another board, one woman got pilloried for saying, “I’m going to not be PC, and say ‘Why the hell were some of those women there in the first place?’” I was one of them who agreed with her; there are places where women really shouldn’t go. Heck, there are places where PEOPLE shouldn’t go.
I’m sorry, why do you consider it offensive?
If a woman is fat, she should be called out on it. If she doesn’t find it offensive, there’s no harm. And if she does consider it offensive (and if she is, indeed, fat), it should be a nice incentive for her to stop shoveling food into her mouth and exercise more. Fat shaming works and does wonders: look at recent picture of Amy Schumer where it looks like she finally made a half-decent attempt to lose some weight. She’s still over-weight, but out of obese territory.
We live in an age, where a major political figure can win elections with a single hilarious (and historical) joke about woman’s weight.
Watch closely as women in the audience roar with laughter as Rosie O’Donnell gets demolished for (among other things) being a fatso.
Hopefully, we’re coming closer and closer as a society to a state, where calling out someone for being fat is not only acceptable, but applauded.
This could work! I think you should do a field test and tell every overweight woman you see all that you told us. Let us know how it goes. What about overweight men? I think you should try it with them, too. Have fun!
Because at some colleges - and Cornell is one of them, Greek life is part of having a social life for a large proportion of the campus. We expect to be able to go to a party and not get roofied or sexually assaulted. To live our lives assuming that every guy out there is a predator is a difficult way to live your life, and it really isn’t fair to the guys who aren’t.
So young women go to frat parties. Because that’s where other people are. Because that is where your friends are, or you might meet friends, or you might meet someone who turns into a romance - or even, you might hook up with someone.
Once again, women should not have to be responsible for men being dicks. And if we are going to be responsible, then men have to stop complaining when we treat every single one of you as a potential rapist or harasser. When we believe every story told by every woman about how you treated her. You don’t get it both ways. Either don’t blame us and look to us for solutions on your misbehaving gender - or don’t blame us when we write all of you off as assholes or when the bar for you proving to us that you aren’t is really high.
Well, having consensual sex with another is none of your business. Even if it’s motivated in part by a contest. Why is it the university’s place to stick its nose in private affairs?
. College kids are only technically adults, IMO. So the adults overseeing a ‘community’ of ‘young adults’ IMO have more reason to get involved in ways which wouldn’t be as appropriate if it was real adults all around, the extent to which ‘the community’ acts collectively against stuff that is not a crime (it’s not criminal harassment or abuse to say gratuitously cruel things about people behind their backs they might find out about, it’s just not right).