Coronavirus COVID-19 (2019-nCoV) Thread - Breaking News

Donald J. Trump


  1. If it was completely man-made, there are cloning sequences for designing the genome that you can look for. So, unless they took the time to “cover their tracks”, those sequences would be there.

  2. Alternatively, they could have been studying the evolution of real coronaviruses in the lab. If someone from the lab got infected, they could spread it outside. In that case, I assume it would look like a natural coronavirus. The lab director in Wuhan said none of the current strains match the strains they were working on. I suppose she’s lying but China has now traced the origin outside of Wuhan. I suppose they’re lying. For all we know, the lady in the video is Falun Gong or some other dissident with an understandable axe to grind. Doesn’t mean it’s true. So again, if China’s hiding something, this lady needs to pony up and give an independent lab the virus.

What would that prove? Maybe she had a sick person cough on a petri dish. What proof could Dr. Li-Meng Yan provide that her claims are true?

Actually, that’s a good point. Even if this was a virus that was slightly different than the ones we have now, how can she prove it came from a lab and not a person? Nope, she’s got nothin’.

I’m curious how many people there are in the world who know how to identify those cloning sequences. This seems like quite a niche field. I can’t say that I have my mind fully wrapped around what it is they do at those gain-of-function labs, though, or exactly why they do it.

Building genomes or parts of genomes is extremely common. So much so that you can buy kits to do it.

If you really wanted to hide your tracks you could do these nested polymerase chain reactions to create sequences whole cloth. I haven’t been doing research in a long time, so I don’t know what people can currently do. However, you’d have to make it look like a virus that evolved naturally.

You could also take a current virus and speed up natural selection in the lab. That’s what I’m calling a natural virus that’s being studied in the lab. Again, this is not unusual for microbial research since you can easily put pressure on your microbes to mutate. The hard part is getting what you want on purpose : human to human transmission. That you’d have to test and even on animals requires a research program. I suspect that this is what they’re studying in the Wuhan lab they say none of their strains escaped.

Well, she still hasn’t found a credible news source to back her up, but she did appear on Fucker Carlson’s show tonight (6:36 video).

And she published a 26 page report? paper? essay? yesterday too: Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route

I also found this article, which offers some choice quotes at the end:


29,727,253 total cases
939,185 dead
21,542,359 recovered

In the US:

6,788,147 total cases
200,197 dead
4,068,086 recovered

Yesterday’s numbers for comparison:

The world will prolly go past 30,000,000 total cases tomorrow.

Thanks, Bo, for fleshing what I should have, earlier, in my post on the Chinese virologist.

You’re welcome, but there’s no way you could have posted all that I did: it was all published after you posted about her.

“A new study purporting to show that the novel coronavirus was manufactured in a Chinese lab was published by a pair of nonprofit groups linked to Steve Bannon, the former top Trump strategist now facing felony fraud charges.”

And Bannon was arrested while visiting a chinese fugative on board said fugatives 28 million dollar yacht. No, nothing to see here.

… Data from initial outbreaks in China, New York City, and Washington state suggested that 20 to 30 percent of patients hospitalized with Covid-19 showed signs of cardiac injury.

That these patients tended to get sicker and died more often than patients without cardiac complications didn’t set off immediate alarm bells. These were, after all, people with serious cases of Covid-19—serious enough to wind up in the hospital. Most people who contract the virus experience a spectrum of less-severe symptoms. As many as one in three never feel sick. But now, evidence is emerging that the virus can cause heart damage even in people who’ve had mild symptoms or none at all, especially if those people exercise while they’re infected.

And these problems don’t just affect athletes. A larger observational study conducted in Germany earlier this summer followed 100 non-athlete Covid-19 patients and found lingering heart inflammation and other cardiac abnormalities in 78 of them. According to Eric Topol, a US-based cardiologist who corresponded with the study’s authors, 12 of those people had no symptoms of Covid-19 at all. And while the study was later corrected for statistical errors, its authors confirmed that the main conclusions still stood: Even a mild course of Covid-19 could harm the heart.

My bold.

This is way scary news. What if you keep exercising, but you don’t know you have COVID? Right.

Ah I see, interesting, thanks. Not that I’m the slightest bit surprised at this, given the story was, at first, sourced only from youtube and an Indian newspaper, and nowhere else, hence more ‘sniffing out’ certainly coming to eventual light.

[quote] from link:
The study is the work of the Rule of Law Society and the Rule of Law Foundation, sister nonprofit organizations that Bannon was instrumental in creating. According to documents posted on the Society’s website last year, he served as that group’s chair. The Bannon connection was first spotted by Kevin Bird, a Ph.D. candidate at Michigan State University, and shared by Carl Bergstrom, a biology professor at the University of Washington, who called the study “bizarre and unfounded.” [/quote]

ETA: scratching my head as to how that quote didn’t come out boxed.

The “quote” tags both need to be on their own separate line

[quote=“Guest-starring_Id, post:4781, topic:847758”]ETA: scratching my head as to how that quote didn’t come out boxed.

[quote=“Guest-starring_Id, post:4781, topic:847758”]
ETA: scratching my head as to how that quote didn’t come out boxed.[/quote]

My thought on this is essentially the same thought I have about all the so-called research breakthroughs.

COVID-19 is a new virus. This does not mean that all this research is based on new ideas. While SARS-CoV-2 is new, there have been earlier emergent viruses that are similar, like SARS-CoV.

These earlier emergent viruses have been extensively studied by thousands of virologists. The spike proteins have been analyzed. The cleavage sites have been identified and studied. They have been tested extensively against all sorts of drugs including Hydroxychloroquine.

All these highly technical descriptions of chemical pathways are very impressive sounding. But very few of them are specific to COVID and many aren’t even specific to viruses.

A lot of them are just the general chemical imbalances that happen when you are sick from anything. That’s why the the clinical history of promising treatments that target these pathways frequently shows they have also be touted as promising treatments against non-viral illnesses like cancer and bacterial infections.

Viruses are pretty obdurate and there hasn’t been a lot of success in terms of cures - and effective treatments are usually multi-drug cocktails that attack across multiple avenues.

I’m not saying the new discovery is worthless, this information may prove useful in terms of developing a complex treatment. But I’m saying this article gives the impression that if researchers can find a substance that blocks this receptor site, then we will have a cure.

Viewed in the light of the history of the science of virus prevention and treatment, this is just unbelievably optimistic.

Note: Frequently when I “research the research“, I use a date limited search set to not display anything AFTER 1-1-2020.
This gives me a picture of the research done on the infection mechanism, or possible cure, or whatever, pre-COVID. This has shown me that a lot of stuff being presented as new really isn’t.

Thank you for commenting…that’s helpful.

I don’t think that is necessarily the conclusion to be drawn at this point. See this letter co-signed by a large group of physicians:

Studies123 investigating the prevalence of myocarditis in patients with recent COVID-19 have found features of subclinical myocarditis on cardiac magnetic resonance (CMR) imaging in patients without symptoms. Some commentators have raised concern that COVID-19 may lead to frequent, serious long-term cardiac sequelae even among people who have had mild infection and are currently asymptomatic.

We wish to emphasize that the prevalence, clinical significance and long-term implications of CMR surrogates of myocardial injury on morbidity and mortality are unknown. Further, it is unclear if the elevated T1 and T2 flagged in these studies are clinically significant, particularly in isolation, if treatment is needed, and, if so, what the management should be. These important questions should inspire future prospective studies.

Nonetheless, these reports have attracted significant media coverage, at times amplified by speculation on possible clinical implications, thus generating substantial anxiety amongst members of the general public. As a result, we are aware that some individuals are seeking CMR testing despite the absence of cardiac symptoms. We believe that, given the preliminary nature and limitations of the current evidence, testing asymptomatic members of the general public after COVID-19 is not indicated outside of carefully planned and approved research studies with appropriate control groups.

It’s my layman’s understanding that acute myocarditis is a fairly regular occurrence with other common viruses. See this interview with Dr. Michael Ackerman, genetic cardiologist at the Mayo Clinic.

D.O.: Are there any other viruses that can cause myocarditis?

M.A.: Yes, there are. Long before coronavirus, there are over 20 viruses that have been implicated with the ability for this kind of heart damage that we call myocarditis. We know that almost half, around 40% to 50%, of all cardiac transplant recipients require transplants because of the damage done by myocarditis. It is a very important entity but it is one that has been around long before coronavirus. This virus is yet another virus with the capability of infecting the heart muscle and potentially damaging the heart muscle. It’s created even more anxiety during this COVID-19 pandemic.

D.O.: How does this apply to young and healthy athletes who don’t have pre-existing conditions?

M.A.: For those individuals who are asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, this myocarditis thing is a non-issue. That’s because the virus hasn’t reached or done any damage to that viral infected person. It’s a very small number of otherwise healthy young people where the viral infection of SARS-CoV-2 is going to reach the heart, penetrate the heart, or do any measurable damage. Myocarditis taking center stage with athletes and discussing athletes risk is probably a bit overstated.

D.O.: What happens if an athlete gets SARS-CoV-2 myocarditis?

M.A.: If someone gets SARS-CoV-2 myocarditis, it’s potentially a big deal. But any other potential viral myocarditis is also a big deal. If there’s a substantial level of heart damage rendered, we could be talking (about) life-support devices and cardiac transplantation. That is so much the exception, rather than the rule in any myocarditis. This coming flu season, influenza can infect and damage the heart muscle. It’s really a matter of perspective and weighing everything in the balance.

I’d welcome any SDMB’s doctor’s thoughts on the issue.

Summer wave of dementia deaths adds thousands to pandemic’s deadly toll – The US CDC is seeing an unexplained twenty-percent increase in deaths attributed to dementia/Alzheimer’s. It’s not clear whether this is due to undiagnosed COVID, disruptions in care attributable to staffing and other nursing home problems, lack of social contact with the outside world, or some combination of these and/or other factors.

Latest report from NZ today -
NO new community cases, all new cases are “imported”.

Apparently we have done 889,717. tests to date - which equates to roughly 20% of the population.

Less than 50 active “community” cases as of today.

All (known) active cases in NZ are in managed isolation