Couch-surfing kid, where do I go from here? [long]

In My Humble Opinion
41

A degree does not guarantee a middle class lifestyle anymore. I know a few people who went to college, landed well-paying jobs in their field, and they are happy. I know a lot *more *people who went to college and either drifted around/dropped out or got a degree but couldn’t find a job in their field (or had picked a major without realizing they’d need a PhD to get their dream job). They ended up either unemployed and living with parents or working in retail/food service because of those choices. They have student loans to pay back, and no way to do so. Things are a *lot *different now than they were even 10 years ago.

And you are still refusing to address the very likely possibility that his parents won’t share their financial information with him. How the hell do you think a poor kid is supposed to afford college without a single federal loan or grant?

I dunno if you misread or what, but I do not have a degree. I attended college for 4 years before dropping out, with squat to show for it.

42

I think the fact of the matter is that up until a few short years ago a college degree was the thing you needed to have and the guarantee of a better life. But right now things are in a state of flux such that there is no guaranteed way to a job and a better life. A degree might just result in more debt and unemployment. The trades, as gracer pointed out, are pretty dependent on the economy remaining strong and that’s still up in the air in the US anyway. This is why life is so scary for a lot of teens and twenty-ish kids; there’s no right path today. It was easy for me: go to college. Not so easy now.

But good for you pullin. Hoping this works out for you and the kid. At the very least, right now he knows that not all adults are idiots and that some older folks think he is an ok person. Both are a 100% improvement over his life before he met you.

43

And , like the gospel, not everybody believes it.
The data I’ve seen is not so simple. Sure, the average salary of a college educated person is higher---- but that’s an average. When talking about one specific individual, there are many,many other factors besides education that affect his income.
The way I read the statistics, holding a college degree corrollates with middle class income, but does not cause it.

This thread is about a teenager who is lost, undirected, has no money, no support* , is insecure ,from a broken family. He probably lacks both good study habits and the social skills that are so necessary to succeed at a middle class career. I’m guessing that there a more immediate problems to solve before he goes to college.

*other than the OP, who deserves a medal of honor!

44

IF you can find a way to afford college.

IF you enter a field that actually pays any money.

IF you finish a degree.

You’re ignoring the fact that without parental assistance - his bioparents, not the people who have taken him in - this kid can NOT get any form of financial aid whatsoever. NONE. The iron-clad assumption is that his parents will help him out, whether they will or not. Failure to get the forms filled out means he’s out of the running.

So, he has to find a way to pay for it. Somehow. At full price. And he’s going to do that… how?

Then there is the matter of what he may or may not be interested in. If he did, hypothetically, want to be a car mechanic then what he needs is a trade school, not a four year university. Some people actually are interested in a military career. And some people, yes, want to be a doctor or a lawyer. We know nothing about this kid, what his aptitudes and interests are.

On top of that - I have a bachelor’s and 30 years experience and in 2007 my job was flushed, outmoded by technology and outsourcing. Sure, I got 30 years out of my degree but right now I’m learning a new trade. Does it suck to go back to education at 45 or 50? Yes and no. Frankly, there was suck when I went to college at 18. It’s all in how you look at things.

Is being middle class important? Well… it’s nice to have a middle class income but if you’ve got a buttload of student loan debt a middle class income won’t always make you middle class.

Right now this kid is homeless and penniless. Sure, college, great, a middle-class career/lifestyle/whatever it’s all great but RIGHT NOW he need shelter, food, and clothing first and foremost. THEN he needs to try to figure out what’s next. RIGHT NOW getting a minimum wage job and some self-respect is the first step because mom and dad just tossed him out like the weekly garbage.

Taking 6-12 months to get his feet under him and actually plan a future is better than simply dumping him into college without clear direction. Especially at today’s prices. If he gets a bachelor’s or master’s or PhD frankly no one is going to give a crap if he entered college right out of high school or waited 2 years to become a freshman. It’s more important that, wherever he goes from here, he reaches his goals successfully rather than quickly.

45

Job Corps is indeed in Texas and I believe they have an entry-level HVAC program (among many others), based on info I got from them last year from my own “foster son” in the same boat.

46

Good on you.

How many kids in what ages do remain with ShittyParents in Hellhole House?

47

While not disagreeing that a) college isn’t for everyone, and b) it wouldn’t kill the kid to take off a year before college or transfer to a 4-year from a city college, I have a question re the financial aid: Can the kid emancipate himself at age 18? Wouldn’t that make the financial aid a lot easier? I know there would still be a huge number of hoops to jump through, but I feel like saying there’s no way may be overstating it.

(olivesmarch, are you reading this thread? I seem to remember you did something similar.)

48

53% of recent college grads are jobless or unemployed

Meanwhile . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/business/smallbusiness/even-with-high-unemployment-some-small-businesses-struggle-to-fill-positions.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

49

Then again, this article indicates that many jobs with the highest unemployment are in the lower-education sectors, like construction, oil riggers, steel workers, etc. For many of the high-unemployment fields, however, it cautions that the sample size is under 10,000

50

The article says underemployed, not unemployed. And while anyone working a job that doesn’t require a bachelor’s degree is classified as underemployed, that doesn’t mean a bachelor’s degree doesn’t make the job easier to get.

That said, I think people should wait to enroll in college until they’re academically prepared and their lives are stable enough for them to devote some serious time to their studies. (This is doubly true now that there’s a six-year lifetime cap on Pell grants.) I’m a professor at a small public university that serves a lot of students who are underprepared and / or have chaotic personal lives, and they have a tendency to flail around, waste whole semesters by withdrawing from or failing most of their classes, and eventually leave without a degree. Or if they do graduate, they take seven or eight years, switch majors multiple times, and eventually limp to graduation with a C average and a degree in “general studies,” which is essentially a dumping ground for the rejects from all the other majors. (Most nonselective colleges have at least one such program, though the names vary.)

51

D’oh, you’re right, underemployed.

Regardless, I’m in agreement with the camp that says that if the guy has specific career goals, and the intellectual aptitude and discipline to reach those goals, that require a bachelor’s degree, by all means, he should obtain one (if financially feasible). However, if he is not sure what he wants to do, he would most likely be better served by either 1. Finding a job that requires only a high-school degree and spending some time getting on his feet and figuring out the next step or 2. Take up training in a field that requires less formal education (and therefore less expense) but still has strong employment prospects.

52

That “53%” number includes the jobless AND underemployed, which is a massive difference. To begin with, whose jobs do you think all those degree holding underemployed folks are working? They are pushing out those with no education at all. It’s bad for everyone, but it’s worse for those without a degree.

There is also some tricky defining here. For example, nursing is counted as a job that does not require a degree, which does not reflect the reality of today’s hiring practices. Would you all a 4-year degree holding nurse “underemployed?”

And then there is the question of what happens tomorrow. Graduating now sucks for everyone. But 5 or 10 years from now, when these new graduates are thinking of starting families, who is going to stuck in perpetual low wage work? We don’t know. But a good guess is that when the economy picks up, the educated are going to be the first to recover.

Here are some real statistics:

As for debt, with today’s federal student loans, new borrowers will never need to pay more than 10-15% of their salary, and that these loans can be forgiven in 20-25 years. This goes down to 10 years if you work in government, education, nonprofits, or other public service fields. On the government’s side, it still is turning a profit on the student loan program.

So with Rachellelogram’s income and debt, she’s looking at payments of…$84 a month. Of course, life would be better if you didn’t have to pay $84 a month, but that’s hardly going to be crushing you into grinding poverty. Is the price of cable TV worth the literally millions of jobs (most of which pay far more than $27,000 a year- which is just over the poverty line for a family of four) that opens up?

Private loans are a different story. Don’t take out private loans.

53

Where is the evidence of this? He’s “lost”? “Undirected”? His parents are, for sure, but there’s no evidence this kid is a fuckup, he’s just homeless and needs guidance. He’s been the OP’s daughter’s bf for two years. The OP talks about how they took him to things, cheered for him, etc., etc., suggesting that he’s been involved in extracurricular activities and an active part of his school community, despite no encouragement from home.

As a teacher, I’ve seen a lot of kids like that, and I tend to think they are the ones that need to go to college the most; school peers have provided a vision of an alternate future to them. If they stay behind while all those peers go off to college, they lose that vision and settle back into accepting the expectations of the people that are left.

54

I’m back, finally. I really apologize for not responding more quickly, but things have been a little busy. In addition to everything else, I have one of my own moving back home for a short time (this week). Never rains but it pours, right?

A short update: We’ve been trying to get some of the youngster’s other (non-crappy) relatives involved and have had some small success. I don’t know how it will pan out, but some of them are taking notice and, if nothing else, may help him out with at least an old car.

I’m still planning to contact CPS, and a lawyer (in that order). I want some idea of his legal options and any available services and want to proceed with a clear picture. Maybe overkill, but I think it’s best to act on firm knowledge.

I’ve talked with various people about getting employment for him, and am still calling in my markers (if that makes any sense). He actually has on his own (with littleMissPullin’s transporting) managed a few interviews and options and is at least aware of and striving for full employment. We’re still trying everything we can think of.

I’ve come up with a goofy, but serviceable idea on living arrangements (tell me what you think?). I’m worried that living in really low-income quarters will come with some exposure to crime, etc. I’ve hit in the idea of placing our (fairly nice) RV in a decent park, and allowing him to live in that. It would give him his own place with a small yard and he could even have guests and cookout on the grill. It’s not huge but the nicer RV parks are a better choice than “that” side of town. It would be far cheaper than paying for digs in even a crappy apartment, and would allow him to start with less income tied to rent (probably 30-35% of the cost of an apartment). Kinda odd and out-of-the-box, but I think it might work out and leave a little more disposable income for him. (Of course, it sorta ruins my summer camping, but oh well… :rolleyes:)

I really want to thank everyone again for the suggestions. I’m still reading when I can and I *promise *I’ll get back to answering as soon as I can.

55

Sorry for hijacking your thread.

When I was in university, my university had a trailer park, and it was all around a lot of fun for the people who lived there. I’m glad you are having some success reaching out to his relatives. Do keep following up with CPS. In the future, documented neglect could help him be considered for financial aid independence, and a paper trail will be useful.

56

I think the RV idea has merit. Might want to think a bit more about the pro’s and cons but still worth considering.

57

One note on university financial aid. I was able to get Pell Grants, scholarships and student loans from my private university based on the fact that I was receiving zero support from my parents. It took a long conversation with the Fin Aid office (I told them that if they wanted to get my father’s 1040 - they could call him and good luck.)

So it is possible at a private school (and often times private schools have better financial aid than the so-called cheaper public schools).

Good luck and thanks for what you are doing. I have taken in a few adult strays in my life, and it is tough be fulfilling. My older son won’t be tossed out, but I could see him looking for something different too and needing a friendly couch to surf. Finally, there but for a good financial aid person and a wonderful girlfriend (now my wife of many many years) - that would have been me.

58

No problem. :slight_smile:

Both sides of the college/trades debate have merit, and the statistics bear out the results for population at large, but we’ll need to work this one from the POV of a single individual (and the cost/benefit etc.).

The tensions with his family (immediate and distant) seem to be easing somewhat, and I’m more hopeful on the job front now. We had a long talk about jobs, future, probabilities, and necessities right now. I’m trying to introduce the concept of the “long haul” vs the “snowball’s chance in hell” of fame and fortune. Some families seem to view professional sports/entertainment or lottery wins as the only way to affluence. This is a tough viewpoint to change.

We’re still exploring everything, and I will try to get all the external (CPS, Adult Services, etc.) help we can. As much as it galls me, I may have to make nice with the crap-parents in hopes they will throw him a few bones (more detail later).

Thanks again to everyone for all the suggestions. I’ve read and thought about everything that’s been said.

59

I just want to say, pullin, that you sound like one of the best human beings possible, and I think you might be my hero :slight_smile: What a genuinely good person you are!

60

The RV sounds great, actually. Most important is of course if he would like it. Will it be inhabitable in really hot weather, or in the cold of winter?

If you want to help this kid get more good life experiences at little cost (to help with his pride and his savings and help build his independence) you might look into free or low-budget volunteering over the summer.