Yeah because a world-class multi-league champion versus a vaguely world class guy is relevant to “a trained woman vs an untrained man.”
Of course her punches were ineffective. It was pretty clear watching it that she has little to no training in striking and maybe mid-level skills in BJJ. Her “ineffective punches” did open a cut on his nose and split his eyebrow pretty good though.
As to the submission, yeah, she got the armbar but she should have had the triangle much earlier. Her knee was right on top of her foot - had she slid it up past the instep it would have been locked and done and the only thing the slam would have done (unless it knocked her out) would be to deepen it. Of course, had she locked the triangle in the first place he wouldn’t have had a chance to tap her.
There was an example of a minimally trained BJJ player versus a pretty much entirely untrained striker(?)
No, he had her in a VERY loose guillotine choke and I’m not sure he even closed it (grabbed the choking arm with his free arm in order to secure the head and exert more pressure.) He could not have “crushed” her anything because he had no clue what he was doing.
It is hard to find fights between a woman with demonstrable credentials and a man without training so I’ll go with the next best:
Both winners were at a size and strength disadvantage and both winners won because their opponents were not trained in a meaningful way (neither were strikers and both counted on height and weight to decide the fight.)
See also the “careers” of Paul “Polar Bear” Varleans" and Brock “Tits on a fish*” Lesnar**
Okay I made up his nickname but it is apt.
** He lost to Mir because he didn’t know submissions. He beat Mir because Mir really doesn’t know striking. He lost to Dos Santo and Valasquez because Brock doesn’t really know striking and hate getting hit - which is likely why he doesn’t know striking.
You are 100% right.
She is neither the “best [nor] the most famous female fighter” and being the best at forms is like saying she is a world class engineer because she kicks ass at origami.
A well trained woman will beat an untrained man 80% of the time so long as she knows to expect him to use his size and weight to muscle her into helplessness. If she can avoid that then be she striker or ground-fighter she will win.
First of all that dude did not punch her in the head standing. He also kept his hands down and didn’t try to block strikes. He was dodging relatively flat footed. He didn’t head butt her but he did get cut with her head butts. And they are probably similar in weight. I’m 240 and while I’m not 8% body fat I’ve weight lifted a decent amount.
I probably outweigh that guy by 100lbs! The way he slammed her is how I could slam him. Lol. I had to tackle men in the mid 200s playing rugby. I’m sure I could lift his anorexic ass.
I’ve probably been in just under 10 fights as an adult. Probably around 60 as a child/adolescent. As an adult I’ve never fought anyone that scrawny.
Difference between me and that guy? My hands aren’t kept low. My hands do move towards an adversariy’s head.
That dude wrestling with Rousey isn’t even trying. It’s like he’s wrestling a small yellow belt.
No. Her punches didn’t do that. Head butts did. Head butts and elbows that the man refrained from using on her. He also kept his hands down the whole time.
At the heavyweight size power is so high that even relatively equal fighters can be defeated quickly. There is a reason that all the other weight classes cut weight! It’s to avoid the 220lb+ guys that can take your head off. You want to take a punch from a prime Tank Abbot? Not me. Yes training helps but I just don’t see a 130lb woman beating a somewhat athletic 220lb man that hasn’t lived without a tv and awareness of arm bars and chokes.
That woman beat that man in a competition. While it does look like he took her lightly and failed to demonstrate killer instinct, he didn’t want to lose either and was pretty unhappy when he tapped.
In real life, men underestimate women all the time. A lion attacks a lamb much differently than it attacks another lion.
That may well be true, depending on the environment in which the fight is taking place.
But if the woman is well-trained in self-defense - not MMA, self-defense, they are not identical although there is certainly considerable overlap - she won’t dance around him. She will avoid the first attack and get the hell out.
Aside from two early kicks, one a leg kick, he took it very easy standing. He also didn’t retaliate with head butts after she head butted and cut him. Repeatedly. And head butts hurt. So I’m not sure what the stipulations were for that fight. But it doesn’t look like the rules were even. Maybe this was a Billie Jean King MMA match.
Now I’m not saying a trained woman can’t beat a larger male. What I am saying is training only goes so far against size and strength. Odds definitely go up with training I don’t deny that.
ISTM that people are missing (I’ve posted this before, either in this thread or another thread on the topic) the difference between two separate issues, and confusing the question.
There’s a huge difference between the following two situations:
[ol]
[li]A randomly selected man and woman, each of average size and athletic ability for their gender, but with the woman being trained and the man untrained.[/li][li]A randomly selected man, of average size and athletic ability for his gender and untrained, and a woman who in addition to being trained is also a world-class athlete/fighter.[/li][/ol]
In the second case, you’re positing that the woman has, in addition to training, a level of natural athletic and fighting ability that surpass 99.99% of the population. That changes the question entirely.
The answer to “can an average-sized man with no training beat up a random Ronda Rousey-sized woman who has fight training?” is very different from the answer to “can an average-sized man with no training beat up Ronda Rousey herself?”
Okay, maybe Cynthia is not the most famous fighter but if you ask any movie buff who the female equivalent to Bruce Lee is, the answer most commonly given is Cynthia Rothrock and I do find it impressive that she did virtually all her own stunts.
That being said, if you look at the video I linked to with Cynthia, you can see that when she tries to hit the big guy, he just shrugs off her punches and kicks until she fights a little dirty.
Still, some impressive stunt work and forms fighting
Yes, I think that people have a tendency to subconsciously assume that the strength difference is like the height difference - significant but not overwhelming. In reality, the strength difference is quite a bit more.
I’m not an expert but I think that one could roughly say that women are 90% of the height of men on average but about 65% of the strength of men on average.