The point was he was basically not using any of the training. He was mostly just resisting and doing some basic wrestling. How many males have no wrestling or fighting experience? Look at the size and applied strength difference. He can manhandle her with ease. Now imagine he was striking her.
What special training does someone with that size difference need? Don’t stick your neck out to get choked?
Most? Obviously your mileage differs dramatically or you would never have made that comment, but schoolyard shoving and wild swinging matches aside I sorta feel most guys have no particular real training or experience in fighting.
I mean I got into a couple of tussles in grade school, took about a few months of aikido as a very young youngster and put on boxing gloves a few times to play at sparring with buddies. But I feel I learned absolutely zilch that I could usefully apply today.
It’s harder than you think. Just ask Dan Severn, world class wrestler, who got caught in a Gracie triangle choke. At least that took over 10 minutes. Gracie handled people with no grappling training in less than 2 minutes. Untrained and even trained people can be careless with their arms, legs, and even neck. For example, if you’re trying to pass the guard, chances are you’re leaving some part behind, either an arm or your head. Especially if you’re trying to brute force your way out of it, which would be the instinct of a strong, untrained man taking on a female who has him in guard. Whatever he leaves behind is going to find all four of HER limbs working on it and I don’t care how strong you are, you’re crying for mama if it’s your arm and going to sleep if it’s your neck.
Severn vs Gracie is going way back. You a long term MMA fan? Hmm. Severn vs Gracie, Shamrock vs Severn 1, and Shamrock Vs Gracie 1 are all good points. Fedor vs Coleman and Fedor vs Randleman are also illustrative. I just don’t know though. Rousey is just so tiny.
I envision this against a large male who has a bit of experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pmKCLwXZBA
Or this:
Actually, octopus, that’s exactly what happened to a female fighter fighting a male:
By her own admission, even though she had dominant position on her opponent in the beginning, her punches were completely ineffective against her male opponent. The submission though, was quite effective.
BTW, Ronda Rousey beat this very woman in 25 seconds. So unless you’re sure you can kick the dude’s ass who was in the video, chances are you’re not going to last long against Rousey or any other world class female fighter.
Bear in mind that the man in the video in question does not have a significant size advantage over her, and that he has her in a position multiple times where he could have crushed her neck if he were willing to risk seriously injuring/killing her.
There is no question that when fighters are of similar size and exercise some level of restraint (in terms of not trying to kill or irreversibly injure their opponent), the trained fighter will generally win out. However, most fights between a woman and a man imply a significant difference in terms of both height and weight before any other things are taken in consideration. These advantages are hard enough to overcome in a fight between two men, and significantly harder to overcome for a gender that simply has a lower power:weight ratio in the first place.
Choking is legal in vale tudo. He wouldn’t have had to crush her neck, just apply enough pressure to submit her. That didn’t happen.
Organized sports fine, but in a street fight [as in holy shit, this asshole plans to rape me…] eye gouging, nose ripping, lip ripping, ball rearranging hell bent for leather fighting the person who is willing to draw blood and maim will win over the person who wimps out. [the guy who attempted to rape me was ID’e in the ER by the chunk of his shoulder I bit and tore out, the torn eyelid and corneal scratches and the funny walk from rearranged balls. I had a black eye, some bruising on my ribs and a handprint around my neck. He definitely looked like he lost a fight. He also outsized me by probably 75 pounds and 6 inches in height.]
I agree entirely - willingness to inflict serious harm is a huge factor in the outcome of a fight. I don’t think I ever posted anything that suggested otherwise. However, this willingness being equal (i.e both combatants are equally prepared to potentially kill each other), an advantage in weight and reach is very difficult to surmount regardless of level of training - regardless of gender, really. There is some mention to be made of a lower intrinsic power:weight ratio, but the crux of the issue here is that men are generally taller and significantly heavier than women, and in a fight with no regulations as to behaviour, a large size differential often trumps a large skill differential. It has precious little to do with gender and more to do with simple physics.
It’s not just a matter of training. It’s a matter of willingness to do harm or even serious damage. It’s also a matter of experience, even the experience of being hit very painfully and learning to not let that stop you.
Some people who are trained to deliver possibly deadly blows may pull them like they’re in some find of bout or training fight. Someone who has been in a lot of brawls but has no particular fight training will mop the floor with the person who’s trained but not mentally prepared to really fight.
Generally, these MMA girls are a lot faster than they look when watching a video.
When fighting a bigger guy, they will try to use the bigger guy’s weight and aggression against him and wear him down.
It has often been said that a punch or kick thrown and missed is just as bad to the person who throws it can be damaging to one that connects.
Another thing is that a lot of these MMA girls are in terrific shape and have outstanding cardio that given enough time can tire out and wear down an opponent.
I have sparred against some of these girls (I am 6-1" and about 250 lbs) and I have found it difficult to try to strike them as they are too fast for any lumbering strikes that I may attempt.
Then what they will do is avoid ay of my strikes and then put an armbar or joint lock and try to submit me that way (which can be rather effective as I am only an amateur).
However, if I can grab ahold of them, for the most part, I can pick them up and thrown them around similar to the training video with Ronda Rousey and that bigger guy.
The other comment about fighting a wild and unpredictable opponent is quite valid especially when one is not prepared.
Another point is during the final fight scene in Star Wars episode 1, :The Phantom Menace, both actors, Ewan McGregor and the guy playing Qui-Gon (I can’t remember how to spell his name) were fighting Ray Parks, Ray just said to attack me with the sticks representing the light sabres in any way you can and I will be able to defend it no matter how hard you try. Granted, this is 3 guys we are talking about but the difference between skilled and unskilled people is the example
Here is the video of Ray Park in Star Wars Episode 1 training with the actors.
Then again, any trained or experienced fighter is going to be a lot quicker than you think. A well-trained woman probably can just dance around an untrained man and prevent him from landing any blows. But if he does land any blows, they’re still likely to hurt.
Or if you want an example of a female stunt performer in a fight, look up any fighting stunts done by Zoe Bell.
She can make an ordinary person look like a putz with some of the stunts she does. However, these stunts are set up ahead of time and are practiced many times but it gives an example of what a female is capable of.
I haven’t read all of the responses but the male/female difference in upper body strength is just enormous. In one study of grip strength, top female athletes in sports requiring a strong grip (judo, handball) only scored in the 25th percentile of males. Overall there was also almost no overlap between the male/female grip strength distributions, with 90% of the women tested being weaker than 95% of the men:
Here is an older forgettable movie with Kelly Gallant fighting a small guy in a ring
Now that I look at, the fight looks to be speeded up to make it seem more hyper but its a another good one to see how a stunt actress and gymnast could potentially fight.Actually, the best and most famous female fighter would be Cynthia Rothrock and she generally did all her stunts
Note, that she mostly uses her legs (as she was a kickboxer) and was at one time the world champion in forms and you can see that with her stunts.And in weightlifting, the WRs for the lightest men’s class (under 123 pounds) are higher than all but the unlimited (over 165 pounds) women’s class.
To provide a real-life anecdote here about the relative differences in upper-body strength, my mother is a former semi-professional athlete (when she played back in the late 70s and early 80s, there simply was not a full-time living to make in her chosen sport), very stockily built, and did enough weight-lifting until her mid-40s that she’s in the 95th percentile for female upper-body strength by a relatively solid margin. She is a powerful woman, remaining so even well into her 50s.
My father, on the other hand, is perhaps the least athletic person in the world. He does not have, and never has had, so much as the slightest inkling of muscle definition. He is shorter, less broad-shouldered, and in general in every possible way a waif relative to my mother. I would wager he is at best in the 25th-30th percentile of upper-body strength for men, and possibly even lower assuming the physically disabled are excluded. I was able to handily win arm-wrestling competitions with him in the earliest stages of puberty, and I am by no means a burly sorts.
My mother has never been able to so much as remotely challenge him in an arm-wrestling competition. When they were younger (and not divorced) and more energetic, they would occasionally tussle playfully - and despite the fact that my mother probably had a good 20-25 kgs on my father, he could toss her around like a sack of flour at will whilst she could not move him out of the spot if he actively resisted. I suspect the relative difference in lower-body strength is much smaller, but the difference in upper-body strength between even a powerful woman and a waif of a man is almost counterintuitive.