Texas governor Rick Perry has suggested that Texas can secede from the Union - og knows, they’ve done it before - but what is the legal reality of the situation? Okay, that first part probably qualifies as a GQ type thing. But I’m more interested in knowing what the possible ramifications of Texas secession would be. I recall hearing tell, possibly urban myth, that Texas has all sort of special arrangements set up, like being able to secede if they want, or being able to split into five different states with a snap of their might fingers.
BTW, here are two different links about Perry’s secession talk. One from Huffington Post, the other from Fox News (looks like both originate from the same AP News piece). Neither has a good, direct quote from Perry, but both strongly imply that he did in fact threaten secession, if perhaps only as a rhetorical device.
What would happen if Texas were able to secede in a legal, non-violent manner?
Is Texas a net payer or receiver of taxes? How would this affect America’s board with Mexico? Would Texas become insolvent if hit by a couple of big hurricanes in one summer? How much would this affect the price of oil? How much of Texas’ economy is dependent on American military facilities? How much of the US Armed Services is Texan, and how many of those do it only for tax purposes, versus having an actual allegiance.
What other important questions could be considered? Let’s ignore if possible the possible domino effect on other parts of the country and assume that only Texas might have the legal right to secede, unless there is solid information to the contrary.
Texas can’t legally secede any more than any other state can. If you really want to entertain the idea that they can, I have two words for you: Civil War. Really, the US is not gonna give up that many people and that amount of resources peacefully. There have been lots of folks floating this dumb idea around since I was young. Most were of the variety that labeled the period from 1860-1865 “The War of Northern Aggression”. That the governor of our state might float this idea makes me truly sad.
I think it is generally accepted under international law that people have the right to self-determination.
So Texans have as much right to their independence, if they so choose, as the East Timorese, the Kosovans, the Kosovan Serbs, the Bosnian Serbs, the Basques, the Northern Irish, etc.
Of course, international law is a bit less tangible than domestic law, and some get to exercise it and some don’t. Course, the Texans should be able to secede whenever they want, America being the shining beacon of freedom and all.
Bullshit. The groups you mentioned were pretty much all conquered or merged into a country that they were not a part of. Texas joined the USA via a treaty negotiated by its legitimate government. Plus, I live in Texas, we have the right to vote and self-determination already. If you want the right to legally secede, amend the constitution. We aren’t being oppressed by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who suggests we are seems pretty damn childish in my view.
Missed the edit window ** Sandwich **, and did not notice your Edit. Didn’t mean to jump on you, but I love my state probably almost as rabidly as the ones Qadgop met. I just like it to be a love for the actual state, not some myth that some of the folks who live here try to perpetuate.
I would guess there would be immigration problems without INS help, just Texas Rangers to patrol the borders. No FBI, DHS or FEMA help if they get into a bind. Federal funds for transportation would dry up so I can maybe see high taxes on gas and maybe toll roads. An increase in sales tax to offset what they lose in federal funds. All guesses here but I do wonder how much help Texas does get from the Feds?
Another thought, would the Feds step in if Mexico decided they want Texas back if they secede? Or would they hold up their hands and say “Sorry dudes/dudettes, you made the choice”.
He’s not out-right calling for secession, but he’s certainly implying that it’s a strong future possibility despite talking out of both sides of his mouth (i.e. there’s no reason to secede, on the other hand there might be a reason to secede).
In the old days, this would be called sedition. Now, it’s just moronic.
Very much an urban myth. The myth about splitting into five states is a consequence of the enabling act for the admission of Texas:
Of course any other state can split with the consent of its legislature and Congress as well, so this is nothing special–it’s just a statement of legislative intent not binding on a future Congress.
There is no foundation whatsoever for any special privileges in regard to secession.
In practical terms, the idea of secession from a modern welfare state is a joke. The movement will run out of steam the minute people start wondering, “Will my Social Security checks still come on time?”
There are serious questions here. Do people have a right to self-determination, if so, is it inalienable?
It seems to be generally accepted that the right exists. It has to be an international thing - refering exclusively to United States law seems to miss the point fairly obviously.
The Northern Irish have the right, but choose to remain part of the United Kingdom, for the time being. Perhaps they have the right only because the UK is serious about its citizens’ rights? (Which is the irony smiley?) Or perhaps for some other reason?
East Timor and Kosovo only got their independence by fighting, and with the support of the international community. Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo are willing to fight, but don’t enjoy the support of the international community, so apparently it’s not going to happen. Why the difference?
It does seem strange that the United States takes the Yugoslavian and Indonesian approach to self-determination, rather than allowing its states a free choice. If I were a Texan, I would feel resentful that I didn’t have the right to self-determination, without the permission of the government in Washington. But I’m not, and I know that if a majority in my region wanted to secede from my country we could do so. Maybe it’s a small thing.
There’s a very credible secessionist movement much closer to Texas than that, right on the northern border of the US – the Parti Québécois advocates secession from Canada, and has 40% of the seats in the Assemblée nationale du Québec.
What rights would these be? A section of NI wanted to be part of The Rep. of Ireland another section wanted to remain in the UK. They were only in the UK to begin with because of conquest.
The Rep. of Ireland did not just claim this right of self determination that you talk about. They fought a War of Independence for it exactly like the US did.
The UK government agreed to let the people of NI decide their own future as part of the Good Friday Agreement. This wasn’t because of any rights the NI people had, it was because they no longer had any need for the north and it’s people.
All of Texas? What if some significant part don’t want to secede? Is their self-determination being stomped on?
If every individual is allowed self-determination such that it supersedes all other considerations can each person who owns some land decide to become their own country?
Beyond the discussion of whether or not they have the “right” to or could … what does this tell us about the loyalty to country that these people have? Oh yeah, I’ll wave the flag, heck wrap myself in it, so long as you do not threaten me with taxes and tell me that we have to actually be part of pulling our weight. Do that and screw this country, we might just want out.
“My country, right or wrong, … so long as it does it my way.” Hell, they are as bad as Clooney. Worse. He just threatened that he’d move if things didn’t go the way he wanted … not take a whole state with him!
On Texan secession, if there is belief among some Texans that there is popular support for seccession, then the first thing they should do is hold a referendum of the people of Texas, to find out exactly how much support there is. If they get more than 50% support from Texan citizens, then they can go to the US Congress and ask to secede legally. But I suspect they won’t, because they don’t believe there is enough popular support for secession. (If you can’t get 50% support in Québec, which is so different culturally from the rest of Canada, how will you ever get it in Texas?)
I don’t know about Texas, but California pays more to the feds than it receives in federal support. California has much more reason to secede than Texas. It would be the sixth or seventh economy in the world. It also has the second largest Mexican population (Los Angeles) after Mexico City.
And Texas didn’t secede from the U.S. It seceded from Mexico.