The german Asiatic fleet (a group of light cruisers) escaped from Tsintao in China, at the start of WWI. They made their way across the Pacific, and sank a British squadron under Admiral Craddock. Later, a British battleship group was sent to catch the germans, who had entered the south Atlantic. The British force was anchored at Port Stanley, in the falklands, when the germans came by…as soon as the germans sighted the masts of the British fleet, they turned away. But the Britsh had faster ships with larger guns, so the outcome was not in doubt. Adm. Sturdee´s force had 12 inch guns that outraged the german´s 8 inch guns by over 6000 yards. So the british leisurely blew the german cruisers to pieces. I belive only one german ship survived. Anyway, what if the germans had steamed into Stanley and fired at the british ships at close range? Would the germans have stood a chance of sinking any battle cruisers? Suppose von Spee had done this-could he have managed to win the battle? 
British Exocets would have made short work of the German fleet and if any of the German ships carried recon aircraft the flimsy seaplanes of 1914 would be no match for the Harriers from Hermes and Invincible (the carrier, not the battlecruiser). Were I Admiral Anaya or General Menendez I’d probably welcome the moral support from Graf Spee and the Central Powers but you must admit that Leipzig, Dresden, Gneisenau, Nürnberg, and the other German ships would be pretty obsolete by 1982 standards and would mostly serve to run interference for the Argentine ships.
You mean we aren’t playing an alternative history game?
Possibly, if Spee had initially attacked with his full force and had a lot of luck, although Canopus had steam up and was able to fire as soon as the Germans were within range, and would have been a major factor in any German attack on the harbour due to her heavy guns and protection. It’s hard to see that Spee could have done major damage to the battlecruisers or Canopus with only 8-inch guns, but a lucky hit or accumulated minor damage could have delayed pursuit long enough for him to turn away and escape, while damaging or sinking the British cruisers would have saved the German light cruisers as there would have been no British cruisers to follow them when they scattered.
In the event, Spee had sent only two light cruisers ahead to shell the wireless station and coaling facilities, and by the time he could have brought up the heavier cruisers and the rest of his force, the rest of the British ships had steam up and were no longer vulnerable.
Agreed. Also, the British ships were far from helpless as they steamed up. Invincible and Inflexible could still outgun and outrange Gneisenau and Nürnberg and even at a stop they and the light cruisers made for one hell of a shore battery.
I agree that the odds were long against the Germans, but a few factors, if they had been different, might have evened them a bit.
IF the Germans had approached in darkness and actually taken the British by surprise it might have been possible for them to get close enough to use their guns effectively. I don’t know what the relative rates of fire were for the smaller German guns in relation to the main guns of the British battlecruisers, but in a close-in fight the quantity of fire could have compensated for its lighter impact.
German ships that could move and dodge fighting moored British ones could expect to hit their targets more often as well. While the British ships were more heavily armored, there were still plenty of relatively unarmored areas that could be damaged and impede the ship’s later effectiveness. I understand it was a different war with different technology, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that in the battle between the US and Spanish fleets off Cuba during the Spanish-American war, most of the damage to the Spanish vessels was actually caused by the American’s secondary armament.
In terms of alternate history, what would have been the overall ramifications if the Germans had managed to wipe out the British Fleet in the South Atlantic?
Curate
Just wanted to oint out that the big issue with the British not having steam up was that they couldn’t operate the heavy gun turrets without steam (although the guns would have been operational before the main engines were ready for moving out of harbour). Since they started raising steam as soon as the smoke of the German ships was first sighted, Spee would have had to have had his whole force advancing together at full steam to have had even a remote chance to catch the British before they had enough steam up to open fire with the main batteries.
I doubt that Spee would have used darkness to hide his advance. Unless he knew what forces the British had, and where they were situated, closing on an enemy port in darkness with an unknown enemy force almost certainly present was much too dangerous for him to even consider. (The Germans expected that there might be British ships at the Falklands, but beleived that only pre-dreadnaughts or light forces were in the area, and they could outrun the first and outfight the second.)
My belief is that Spee would have turned and run in any case as soon as it was apparent that there were any heavies in port. He had little chance of winning a shooting match against anything bigger than a heavy cruiser, and every incentive to preserve his force as a threat to the huge amount of British shipping in the South Atlantic.
Just wanted to point out…
Cruisers against battleships? Only if Admiral Von Spee was very lucky man, and history has proved that neither him, nor people with his surname nor ships named after him were very lucky specially in the south atlantic.
Actually, battlecruisers, but in this case, (for once), the British actually used them as they were envisioned to be used and were successful. (Far too frequently, the Brits sent battelcruisers out to do a battleship’s job and lost them to enemy fire.)
I doubt that even had von Spee managed to charge the harbor he’d have won. Gneisau got 12 8.2-inch strikes on Invincible yet caused only a single injury and no substantial damage. Similarly, the 4.1-inch guns of the German light cruisers were quite effective in hitting the British cruisers, but inflicted very little damage. To actually succeed, the Germans would have had to have to be able to take liesurely target practice at the Brits and the Brits were not nearly stupid enough to allow that.
Odds are, even if Spee had won at the Falklands (and, even if he had won, he probably would have had at least some notable damage to his fleet), the same thing would have happened as happened after the real-life victory of Spee over Cradock at Coronel- the British would have sent another fleet, and, eventually, would have sunk Spee. The coaling station and wireless at the Falklands would have been distroyed, and shipping in the South Atlantic would be disrupted, but it wouldn’t have changed much in the big picture of WWI.
“There appears to be something wrong with our damn ships today.” Admiral Beatty.
What was wrong was that British ships couldn’t take a direct hit to the turret without the ammunition train going up all the way into the main magazine. Problem is, it’s an incredibly lucky shot.
Not that it would have made much difference in the war’s outcome (going off-topic), since the German took a hell of a pounding in WWI, sustained casualties beyond what should have exhausted them and still kept fighting; demonstrated more adaptability and innovation than their adversaries; fought not only France & Great Britain but, before 1917 the US’s industrial might and after 1917 its military might (with small compensation of being “chained to the corpses” of the Austrian-Hungarian & Ottoman empires as its own allies); and yet, as one indicator, compared to the British, who shot 290-some Tommies for desertion, Germany shot only 8 or so of their own. If there had been a chance in hell that the Germans could have won WWI, they would have.
An indicator, perhaps, of more rigid discipline in the German army (the Kaiser once famously addressed his troops, telling them that their supreme loyalty was to him, and that if he chose to order them to shoot their parents, they would have to obey).
It might also have been easier to maintain order in the ranks in an army that wasn’t repeatedly sustaining horrific casualties in useless offensives.
The South Atlantic naval campaign was a relatively unimportant sideshow. Even with a German victory in the Falklands, their minifleet’s ultimate goal was to sneak back home, where they wouldn’t have had any impact on the blockade that eventually strangled Germany.
I’m sure ralph will be back at any moment to offer his considered opinions based on the various followup posts.
Or not.
Even though largely on the defensive on the western front the germans also suffered horrific casualties in those useless allied offensives, circa 500,000 on the Somme alone for instance. Their own offensives on the eastern front and at Verdun also cost them dearly. So I doubt a lack of casualties was a factor.
My guess is that if Von Spee had massed his forces and descended upon the Falklands by night, he might have had some success. perhaps he might have sunk one or two British ships. At the very least, his mea]n might have been saved (had their ships been sunk close to the islands). The other possibility…as von Spee sights the British ships, he immedistely orders his task force to scatter. maybe two or more ships might have escaped.
As for Adm. Sturdee…his shooting wasn´t so good-the British fired over 1200 shells, and had a hit rate of less than 3% (though he did accomplish his task).