Counterpart, new series on Starz (spoilers boxed in 1st post)

We’re back to two Emilys. I thought the scene with Mild Howard visiting Anna’s room was touching, considering back home it’s used for storage. How soon before Baldwin goes after Clare for setting her up to be killed?

It does seem like the other side is cleaner which much less traffic…they used a bluish filter in those scenes, with a brownish filter for the scenes on this side. Perhaps the population is much lower over there?

Any thoughts on who the mole might be?

Ha, started watching ep 4, but I’m quite tired - it’s late here - and my attention wandered for just long enough for me to get totally confused. I think this show is worth a close watch, so will have another go after some sleep. There’s not many shows on at the moment I can say that for.

I love this show so far! Let’s see if we can work out what we know so far…

30 years ago an experiment of some sort split our world into 2 - World A and World B - which at that time were exactly identical.

Only a select group of people in both worlds know that parallel worlds exist. The local police don’t know, and very few world leaders know. This means that it must be controlled by a single company.

My guess is this company exists to sell secrets discovered in the other world pertaining to scientific and technological discoveries into their own world. But what probably started off early on as mutually beneficial appears to have become antagonistic. No doubt Chekov’s Plague played a role.

On both sides the company seems to be made up of:
4th floor - the highest level executives. In both worlds the leadership is in chaos, and both sides have been infiltrated by moles.

3rd floor - strategy - we don’t know a lot about what this group does yet, but seems to be the most cosmopolitan positions. They likely figure out how to implement 4th floor directives with the other groups - and most likely create the folders used by Interface.

Interface - The lowest branch - they interact directly with a person on the other side reading coded phrases back and forth. They have no idea what they do, what they read, nor whom they’re interacting with.

Analysis - This group takes the coded phrases from Interface and converts to practical messages. They still don’t know what they do, and the work is split between incoming messages and outgoing messages so nobody can get a full picture.

Diplomacy - This group manages the delicate issues, and tries to get some of the big prizes of information if they can get it. Howard B officially works for Diplomacy.

Section 2- Spies - they build the network to get information from the other side. Howard B actually works here.

Housekeeping - They’re the ones that get their hands dirty to keep the secret from getting out.

In both worlds, Emily was working for housekeeping from the start and Howard started in interface. Approximately 28 years ago, they dated and married. One side had a wedding, one side eloped. Kids aside - Emily A kept her secret from Howard, and Howard seemed content enough in his life he never pushed himself to succeed - therefore he languished in Interface. Emily B told Howard B what she did which was the beginning of the end of their relationship. Howard B must have turned to work, women, and other vices to become the person he became.

Emily A became aware of something in this world that affects the other world and started writing letters to Howard B to work with him. This is what set this whole chain of events into motion. I have no idea where it’s going, but excited to see what’s next!

I forgot to mention Baldwin. In the first scene of the first episode, she was still in Earth Prime - but by the end of the episode had crossed over. We know for sure there’s a bit of a black market trade that can pass back and forth, and we know for sure there are corrupt higher ups. But they have not made clear how Baldwin crossed, which could imply that there is more than one crossing.

I noticed the crossing has lots of little bridges - I wonder if it’s stretching and getting bigger as years go by. Was it originally just passing through a door, and now after 30 years they need to pass through a long tunnel?

It’s not that simple. The beginning (or perhaps even the middle) of the end was that Howard B rose up the ranks on his own and found out that pill-popping Emily had been keeping secrets from him, for which he never forgave her. The two Howards (and similarly other twins) share a common background, but they’re different.

Thanks, Frazzled. That was an excellent summary.

True - so far we know nothing about Emily A, but the way Emily B treated Howard A in the last episode is probably pretty close to how their relationship works in world A. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s manipulating him, get him to have feelings for her, and then share information with her from his side when he returns. She needs information and he’s the perfect pawn.

On the B Side - Howard outranks Emily which rankles her, and it seems to be something he likes to remind her about. The don’t take pleasure in the others success and seem to actively try to hold the other back.

It will be interesting to see if Emily A had / has a pill problem just like Emily B. Howard should have noticed, but then he might just not be sharing.

That’s a harsh angle. I got that EmilyB has her regrets but she is rather delighted to have a non-bitter Howard to conspire with.

I got the impression that EmilyB found HowardA appealing in a way that HowardB was not. Meanwhile, HowardB and EmilyA appeared to be carrying on an “affair”, if you can call it that.

World B feels harsh.

I’m not where I can watch so this may be a little off, but in that last episode we had Claire and Baldwin - Claire’s handler asked about Baldwin which Claire replied that she knew Baldwin had sexual feelings for her. Claire’s handler said she should make use of that - so Claire allowed Baldwin to seduce her, then once she had her trust and fell asleep Claire stole her gun leaving Baldwin defenseless against the assassins sent to kill her. I’m pretty sure that handler was in housekeeping too.

I just think that’s a fact of life in world B - Love is a tool Housekeepers use to their advantage.

That seems like a bit of an overreach to me. Just because Baldwin can be manipulated and gets screwed over doesn’t mean that all of world B is constantly being fucked over and lied to. Though I will admit that being under a scary disease threat could make such manipulation easier.

OK, I’m all caught up and pretty much enjoying it. I’m not exactly clear on why Howard1 agreed to go over to the other side, unless it’s just total devotion to his wife and thinking that is the best/only way to keep her safe. I mean, Howard2 got his visa revoked, and although he says it will only take a week to clear things up, there’s a good chance it may never be “cleared up” and Howard1 would be stuck over there until he dies.

The other thing that seems odd is that we are told World2 is technologically disadvantaged, but the Berlin skyline looks pretty sleek and they were supposedly instrumental in developing the AIDS vaccine and decoding the human genome. Perhaps we are being given conflicting images of World2 on purpose, and there will be some surprising reveals as the series unfolds. One might say “It’s complicated”. :wink:

The plot thickens.

So Toby Ziegler’s daughter (Claire) is the mole. I was a little unclear on the coffee stains on the documents Quayle was looking at (I guess she copied them and passed them along to Emily?) I wonder if Toby is in on it or if they killed his daughter and swapped her with Other Side Claire?

The three people holed up in the apartment…an assassin squad?

I do like how this show doesn’t talk down to the audience, and JK Simmons is a delight playing both Howards. Subtle differences, but I can usually tell which is which.

Terrorists, is my guess.

I’m thinking their goal is to release the flu on our side.

Emily said 7% of the population died. Is that enough to make a difference, with deserted restaurants and no traffic jams?

7% in the first four years died is what she said, I believe. Clearly, with the “report all sick people” PSA still running in movie theatres we can assume that wasn’t the end of it.

There was a throwaway line (so throwaway I can’t remember who said it) that said someone was sick. Considering how dire illness is, I’m surprised they didn’t make more of it (yet.)

Plus, even if the population is still pretty high, I imagine most people would be weary about being in crowded spaces. I noticed in the background there was a “Paris is open again for business” sign, trying to get people to come back.

I think I figured out part of how he pulls that off. When he’s Badass Howard, he keeps his face much tenser, Mild Howard always seems to sag just a bit more around the jowls.