I only mentioned this because I thought it was relevant to the discussion. I have tremendous respect for people who prove their beliefs by inconveniencing themselves, whether it be diet, fasting, yarmulkes, turbans, etc. In a society here where Christianity seems to be more about convenience than belief, I respect someone who proves their devotion. (When I was a child, Catholic fasting had changed from “since midnight to communion” on Sundays, to 3 hours, then to 1 hour. Heck, it’s close to an hour between leaving home and the end of mass - what sort of “fasting” is that??? No nibbling in church? Then Saturday night became permissible as Sunday mass attendance, so as not to put a damper on our Sunday leisure.)
Thank you, I now understand this reference better.
I see what it refers to is the potential impact from the fast of Ramadan by statistical correlation. I had thought from your description it was a measure of women in the very earliest pregnancy before the detection and an impact from fasting.
I agree entirely that there is strong potential impact from fasting through the pregnancy and that there is ignorant and inappropriate pressure on people who should not fast to fast during the Ramadan month. I am against this as I think I have shown. It is from great ignorance, and from over-reaction.
Like **ñañi **has mentioned, there are women who knowingly fast through their pregnancy, out of pressure from ignorant or extremist family or ignorant zeal of their own. Like the idea that the young students should force their fasting until fainting, when in fact the clear lesson of the Sunnah is that such fasting is actually makrouh and invalid.
This is quite wrong and should not be done, and in fact there is great support in the non-doubtful hadith and in the quran that practice should never be at the expense of the human health. It is like Jewish law in this fashion.
Yes, sorry I must have misunderstood the passing reference in Freakonomics since I cannot imagine anyone thinking it’s a good idea to fast (and is not required) once they know they are pregnant. If it’s a situation due to lack of education, then we can hope that things will improve as the countries’ general situation improves.
No, it is not your mistake. There is in the article at the end discussion a speculation in this direction, but I must say the nature of their data makes this hard to support. The relying on the datas from the Uganda and the Iraq for comments on women fasting in the month of Ramadan, two countries experiencing great economic and nutritional stresses outside of any religious obligations is also not building confidence in a strong conclusion.
I can not doubt that there are numbers of pregnant women who are fasting when they should not be fasting and that this is having impact, but the data now does not allow very good or very strong insights.
I also note I am not some great promoter of fasting, it is only that the image in the west is exagarated negatively (just as in the Islamic countries I must say there is an exaggeration in the other direction).
I don’t see where it would have a major effect. I routinely have my first meal of the day about 5pm and my last meal or snack about 9pm. I rarely ever eat breakfast or lunch, besides being very hungry I don’t feel bad.
If a woman and her family are that ignorant, extremist or zealous, it is likely that there is a plethora of pre-natal behaviors that will militate against the well-being of the child (before and after birth), many of them grounded in religion, not necessarily Islamic, as well as other unscientific (or pseudo-scientific) cultural memes. Fasting not necessarily the worst of them. There is a 75% chance that any of her previous children will have also endured in-utero fasting, as well
Yes. It is my reaction that if one is fasting and following the proper guidance, that the fasting should not have an impact as the variations should not be that much greater than a long day. But if someone is being extreme and ignorant of the proper guidance, it can of course - so women who fast after becoming aware of pregnancy, this I can see impact, in the way of an example.
Yes, for the paper I think there are too many factors additional to fasting. But I do not doubt that fasting even against the rules of the religion will have a negative impact, this is why proper rules forbid it.