Voted selfish but not cowardly.
Selfishness is not a moral failing.
That’s always been my view too. In that respect suicide is the ultimate selfish act - it is all about self.
Conversely, I do tend to get extremely miffed by the “they’ll be better off without me” argument, though. That’s not your damn call to make. Killing yourself because you hate being you so much you can’t stand it for one more minute - that I can understand. Saying you’re doing it to save others from having to put up with you - that’s a cheap rationalization. Right or wrong, you’re doing it for you.
I don’t consider it cowardly as a general rule, though. It’s not about fear most of the time.
I also think it is a mistake to generalize here, but if forced to choose I vote:
Not cowardly but selfish.
Not cowardly because I believe it actually takes some level of courage to commit this act. While I have never come close to contemplating suicide, I think if I did I would be too chickenshit to carry it out.
Selfish because I believe (in most cases, not all) that the individual who commits suicide is essentially saying to his or her loved ones, “I can’t live with this pain any longer. Here, you take it.”
mmm
The problem is that it is not an argument but a belief, and a sincere one at that. There is often evidence to back it up, or what appears to be evidence through the eyes of a profoundly depressed person.
There’s “putting up with you”, which I see as issue of convenience. But there’s also “being too heavy a burden”, which may be something else.
In the first case, perhaps family members have to transport the patients to innumerable doctor visits for treatment, or simple do a great deal of care taking because the disease is debilitating.
In the latter, perhaps the treatment is terribly expensive, and the patient knows that eventually the family will have to sell the house, drain the kids’ college funds, etc., perhaps just to prolong a like by a relatively short time.
Suicide in the knowledge that your illness is going to bankrupt your family and compromise your childrens’ education is NOT “all about self”.
By the same token, killing yourself because you feel hopeless and depressed isn’t exactly diving on a live grenade to save your squadmates.
Am I the only one that thinks (or is it weird that I think) that it is not the person who commits suicide who is selfish, but the other people who claim to be traumatized by the death of the person? I mean, this person is obviously suffering so badly that they want to end their own life without even knowing what lies beyond but the “victims” (for a lack of better word at the moment) want to keep this person in agony just so they don’t have to go through the pain of letting them go. I think the pain that the person is going through outweighs the pain of those affected, but maybe that’s just me.
But it IS taking the responsibility for the decision entirely into your own hands, and not letting them have any input. And usually it’s because they don’t really WANT that input, because they know their loved one doesn’t consider them too much of a burden.
My SO often feels like his ongoing health issues are too heavy a burden on me. And, y’know, he’s not entirely wrong - they ARE a burden, sometimes a heavy one. Where we differ in opinion is the “too” part. I’m glad to do daily dressing changes, deal with leaking ostomy bags, drive to doctors three days a week, medical bills, etc. …as long as he’s with me. It’s worth it, to me. If he were to kill himself because he felt like he was too much of a burden to me, I’d be fucking pissed. I get to decide that, by deciding if I stay with him or leave him. He doesn’t get to make that choice for me, 'cause I’m a big girl and I can make that choice for myself, thanks!
Now, if we talked about it and I *agreed *that he’s too much of a burden and he decided to kill himself, then sure, that would be different. And yeah, maybe someday it will come to that. Maybe someday I’ll be too much of a burden for him, and I’ll talk with him about it and decide to kill myself. But not today.
What people who feel they are a burden often forget is that they’re also a joy. When they kill themselves to remove the burden, they remove the joy as well. 
[QUOTE=nikonikosuru]
Am I the only one that thinks (or is it weird that I think) that it is not the person who commits suicide who is selfish, but the other people who claim to be traumatized by the death of the person?
[/QUOTE]
No, you’re not. I think so to. And, to keep going with the above example, if my SO were to come to me and say, “I just can’t take the pain anymore. I don’t want to live anymore, I want to kill myself,” then I’d be very very very very sad, but I wouldn’t consider it selfish.
Just don’t make me take the blame for it by saying you’re doing it to relieve me of a burden. Admit that it’s to relieve *you *of a burden.
This describes most of the people I speak with. It seems to be difficult for a person in deep depression to understand the positive parts of their lives for themselves or others. It seems to be just as difficult for them to grasp that their death would cause a mini atomic explosion in their family that could reverberate for decades—they talk as if they will simply blink out and life will go on without them.
My BIL was manic depressive and did well under treatment for many years but the disease hit its terminal phase and he died. Suicide. Do I sometimes think it was cowardly or selfish? Probably. But I feel the same way about my Dad who died of a heart attack that was partly “self indused” (diet, lack of excercise, etc). So maybe I’m a bad person. FWIW.
This is why I voted for selfish, but not cowardly. People who are suicidal have a distorted view of their role in the world. It’s part of the definition of the disease.
A good friend of mine found her husband’s body after he committed suicide a week ago. It was a bad relationship and probably headed for divorce, but she was still devastated. For the people around it, suicide has an emotional impact more like going on a shooting spree than just hitting an off switch. I understand why people get there, but be aware that it’s not a tidy ending. That’s an illusion.
props to Ambrose Bierce.
Suicide CAN be cowardly. It CAN be selfish. It CAN be cruel. It CAN be genuinely evil.
But I’m not a psychic, and can’t tell you what drove any individual to suicide. So, I can’t and won’t categorically label anyone person as selfish or cowardly, because I just can’t know.
When you put it that way it makes me think of all those threads asking if it is immoral to walk away from your mortgage when your house is underwater.
But life will continue to go on.
People will grieve and mourn, sure. A dead person will be missed and their suicide will be the source of much sadness.
But it will wane over time. The blow will soften. The tragedy will pale in the mists of time. Just like any other death of a loved one.
When someone is suffering and they’ve been suffering for a long time and they know it’s only going to get worse, they don’t have the luxury of just waiting it out. It will only get worse for them. Really really bad.
It is noble to consider how your death will impact others when contemplating suicide and deciding, hey, I can wait this out one more day and see what happens. But it IS selfish for loved ones not to consider how much of a sacrifice a suffering person is making, just holding on.
I feel like this: If I keep hanging on only for the benefit of someone else, then it becomes that person’s responsibility to make my life worth living. They’ve got to do whatever it takes to lessen my pain. Most people are not willing to devote themselves to someone else like this, and why should they? Likewise, no one should be guilted into living for someone else. Love is about keeping and also letting go.
Fear Itself,
That definition may hold no weight whatsoever to a person who believes they have taken others into consideration (by believing that the others will be better off without him/her.)
WhyNot,
Thank you for posting your point of view, it was very interesting to read. I like the idea that you should be the one to decide if he is a burden to you or not.
That definition is not intended for the deceased; it was intended for those who find his act selfish.
That’s what I read into it.
In fact, the deceased may have been enough beyond reason to not be able to weigh whether the act was selfish or not.
Obviously, a person who commits suicide because they are in physical or emotional pain wants out of it. It is unbearable to them. If the pain is unbearable, why is the act selfish? We all have varying limits on our pain threshhold.