This is GQ, Peter. There’s nothing wrong with jjimm calling for a citation.
Look at the other suggested etymologies. I talked about “cowboy” repairs because I’ve done cowboy repairs. I live in Montana. I’ve competed in rodeos. I’ve owned a ranch. I have at least a wee bit of firsthand knowledge of the subject.
Others have cited specific movies where the term (or a related term) was used.
Now look at your suggestion. It’s just something you heard somewhere. You’re claiming the source of the “cowboy builders” phrase is people in India. Have you been to India? Have you heard Indians use the term?
He’s actually saying three things: a) that there is allegedly a reputation in the UK that (subcontinental) Indians do substandard workmanship (something I’ve only ever heard in the context of a racist comment by the Duke of Edinburgh); that b) people in the UK conflated that kind of Indian with American Indian; and b) that Brits then flipped this stereotype on its head to refer to cowboys rather than Indians.
Seems even more tenuous than what you’re suggesting, and there isn’t a scrap of etymological evidence out there to support it (that I’ve found, anyway).
What has going to India got to do with it? Or Indians using the term?
No, I’ve not heard Indians referring to bad builders as cowboys. I have heard Londoners using the term. And when I once asked someone why they were cowboys, the reply was cowboys instead of Indians, its’s a joke innit, mate.
So that’s all the cite I have, something that someone once told me. And that’s as much cite as you have for any of the other suggestions in this thread.
The problem with your, as opposed to other, speculations, is that it’s wildly left field and has nothing at all to back it up.
Whereas, for example, Etymonline gives the following derivation: ‘in figurative use by 1942 for “brash and reckless young man” (as an adj. meaning “reckless,” from 1920s).’
So it’s not difficult to make the leap from recklessness to substandard work; whereas with your one there are several leaps that need to be made and nary a mention in any literature.
There was an building company in London run by Indian people that had the slogan “You’ve tried the cowboys, now try the Indians!” But that was a pun on the word “cowboy”. Maybe you’ve got muddled with that?
None of the others have been backed up either. All of them, including mine, are folk etymologies.
To me, a Londoner, mine sounds the most plausible. If it doesn’t to you, then maybe you don’t understand how London slang works.
Did you know that to a Londoner “Bomber Harris” is slang for backside, through a convoluted set of steps? And when you understand that, it is plausible that they would say cowboy when they mean Indian.
Hmmm. Perhaps you should try reading your own posts:
Sounds to me like you were talking about India.
The others, as I said (you didn’t read my post, either, did you?) were either made by people who actually had some knowledge of what they were talking about, or people who cited a specific reference from a movie. They weren’t just made up out of whole cloth like yours.
Oh, I get it. The fact that Cockney slang (or whichever slang you’re referring to) is often incomprehensible to outsiders means that you can attribute whatever you darned well please to Londoners and you’ll automatically be right. Even if you have no citations for your assumptions. Gosh, I guess your superior logic puts us all to shame.
Gary, yes, I mentioned India in my post. Why you think that means that Indians invented the term is beyond me.
And I have given a cite for my statement. I have shown an example of someone using the idea that Indians = bad builders.
And what relevance do the movie quotes have? So, someone in Fawlty Towers used the word cowboy in one particular episode. And that demonstrates what, exactly? What does the Fawlty Towers quote demonstrate about the origin of the word?
Because we’re talking about the origin of a phrase, and you start talking about shanty towns in India, you’re implying that the phrase started there.
Okay, then. The origin is definitely what I said, because some dude in a bar said so once.
Seriously, you call that a cite?
(a) When talking about etymology, uses of the word or phrase in print are the classic citation. For modern cites, a movie demonstrates use and context as well as a book does.
Show me “the reputation cowboys have for putting in the minimum required to get the job done.” I have never heard that cowboys (in the Western sense) have that reputation. Show me this reputation is widespread, or that in fact anyone but you has ever said that about cowboys.
And then explain how it jumped across the ocean, and became exclusively used in Britain, while remaining unknown in it’s country of origin. Can you cite that too?
Until you do so, my guess is just as well cited as your guess.
It’s been a synonym for reckless in the US for some time. I’ve heard it used WRT to American dentists by their peers if they are perceived to do rushed, slipshod work and pay little regard to professional standards in order to rush patients through the office.
Cowboys certainly have a reputation for jury-rigging stuff. I heard this kind of reference frequently when I lived in Colorado (and worked in California, Oregon, Montana, and Wyoming). “Cowboy coffee” was made by just flinging some grounds in boiling water.
You’re a Londoner? Then it doesn’t surprise me that you know nothing about word usage in the western US.
Samclem cites the “reckless” sense in use in Britain in 1964, which is very clearly the same as the US use dating to at least 1942, well before the first attested use for builders in Fawlty Towers in 1972. There seems to be a very clear line of connection between recklessness and carelessness.
Except your cite doesn’t actually indicate any relationship at all between Prince Philips remark and the use of “cowboy builder” in Britain, except your own completely unsupported speculation.
I wonder if it has anything to with the former popularity of Westerns? Put together with the former association with recklessness, and films in which cowboys blow into town, shoot things up and then leave - often around pretty ramshackle buildings.
It wouldn’t be surprising if the same meaning never took hold in the US, where people saw real cowboys in daily life more often and where the cowboy is a patriotic archetype.
I have no cite for this, but I’m not claiming it must be true because one bloke I met told me it was - I’m just speculating. FWIW, I’m also a Londoner and the Indians/cowboys connection makes absolutely no sense at all. As MarcusF said, there simply have never been that many Indian people working in the building trades.
I posted this on the English translation thread that this one’s probably an offshoot of:
I just completed some subtitles for an episode of King of the Hill, and the script included lots and lots of explanations for the words and phrases used. It included this:
Okay, next caller is Bill From Texas. Howdy, cowboy!
(Howdy: slang for ‘Hello’)
(cowboy: an informal term for ‘one who is reckless or careless’)
In context, that definition made no sense. But it’s certainly another written citation of an American usage of cowboy to mean ‘reckless,’ and it’s written as a semi-official definition by someone who’s being paid to write it.
Um, in that particular quotation from King of the Hill, I suspect (although I’ve never seen that episode) that the radio host in the episode was not saying that Bill was a reckless person. He was just making a rather mild and not very funny joke about Bill being from Texas. I don’t know who wrote the explanation that “cowboy” meant “someone who is reckless or careless,” but I don’t think they knew what they were talking about in this case.
IIRC, a previous exchange with the terrorist mutes the association of cowboy with loose cannon.
The terrorist (‘Hans’) had asked McClane (Willis), who do you think you are (trying to rescue the hostages single-handedly), Rambo?
To which McClane replied, “Actually, I was always partial to Roy Rogers. Loved those sequined shirts”.
I would suggest that invoking a cowboy (at least, an old-time movie cowboy) is more an expression of McClain’s ironic, detached American approach to a crisis, in contrast to the furriner’s humorless intensity, a long-time staple of action/adventure movies.
Hans Gruber: Mr. Mystery Guest? Are you still there?
John McClane: Yeah, I’m still here. Unless you wanna open the front door for me.
Hans Gruber: Uh, no, I’m afraid not. But, you have me at a loss. You know my name but who are you? Just another American who saw too many movies as a child? Another orphan of a bankrupt culture who thinks he’s John Wayne? Rambo? Marshal Dillon?
John McClane: Was always kinda partial to Roy Rogers actually. I really like those sequined shirts.
Hans Gruber: Do you really think you have a chance against us, Mr. Cowboy?
John McClane: Yippee-ki-yay, motherfucker.
Arguing with you is pointless. You equate something some dude in a bar said with years of experience with cowboys? I don’t understand why you’re willing to believe any piece of unprovable tripe you hear, but never willing to believe informed, critical, or expert citations. Believing that this expression came from hovels in India is pretty harmless compared to the rest of what you believe, so I guess I will just let you believe it.