This is Crafter Man’s first post, which I will admit is marginally defensible:
After some astonished replies and even the suggestion it was sarcasm, Crafter Man doubles down:
It is arguable whether privately owned guns are necessary for self defense, and I don’t want to argue that. But this goes farther – this says “I insist on keeping my guns, my gun hobbies and my gun fantasies, even at the cost of thousands of everyone else’s lives every single year. There is absolutely nothing that can make me give them up, including a guarantee that no one in the country would ever again be murdered with a gun.”
After self defense, what is left for anyone to own a gun? It is a hobby, for a very few people it the edges of civilization it may be necessary for food, and then there is also the fantasy of an armed citizenry being able to overthrow an overly oppressive government.
Do any of you other gun owners feel this way? Would you not give up your guns even in exchange for the knowledge that there would never again be another murder committed with a gun? Aside from the impossibility of such a guarantee, which I acknowledge, but I’m talking about the theoretical here. If you believed this guarantee, would you surrender your guns in exchange for it?
If not, is there anything else on Earth, or beyond it, that you would trade in your guns for? A cure for cancer? Inexhaustible cold fusion power? Teleportation? Anything at all?
Yep. Boyo Jim is suggesting that the act of banning guns will prevent all gun crimes forever and ever in toto. It is certainly not a hypothetical or thought experiment involving a fictional idealized place. You have correctly intuited the post; good job.
That’s not what he said, or I said. He said he would not give up his guns even if doing so meant that there would never again be a murder with guns in America.
If that were true (and I know it’s not), would you turn in your guns or not?
Maybe we should cross this thread with the “what would you give up sex for” one. Because it’s obvious that many would give up their meat penis before their steel ones.
I hadn’t originally read through the thread, so I had to go check now to see whether Crafter Man had posted anything further, to more fully explain or justify his position. Apparently, his position is that freedom and security are mutually exclusive, and he values the former so highly and utterly that he isn’t willing to give up any of it in favor of the latter. I get the impression his idea of paradise would be living in the lawless old wild west.
40,000+ people have been killed in traffic accidents almost every single year for the past 50 years. That works out to 110 people per day. And yet it isn’t enough to get people to give up their cars.
So I’m going to double down on the doubling down. (If you’re going to cry, I’ll give you something to cry about, so to speak.)
I would be perfectly willing to have such a massacre every day, day in and day out, for infinity, if that’s what it takes for me to have unfettered access to any kind of weapons that I want.
Freedom is messy–sometimes very messy. Sometimes the innocent must suffer. There is NOTHING that would persuade me to give up my freedom. “Better dead than Red.”
He has guns to stop the government from banning guns (and other unlikely scenarios that guerrilla wannabes like to pretend they’re preventing):
That was in 2002, but he posted again to that thread last year without mentioning any kind of change in the worldview that one has to possess in order to join a guerrilla training group.
I love these threads where antis masturbate over the corpses of murder victims. You’re less concerned over a pile of dead children than you are over I WAS RIGHT ABOUT TEH GUNS!!!CRASFTER MAN IS EVIL1!!! Enjoy this to the fullest. It doesn’t happen often, so you should be sure to wallow in it as much as possible. Try not to get any on the coffins, though, as a matter of common courtesy.
WTF are you talking about? You’re apparently delusional. The question to you is simple – would you give up your guns for the certain knowledge that there would never be another murder with a gun in the US?
Or do you also believe guns = freedom, and the latter is impossible without the former?