And took his/her sweet time doing this? I know being a god must be busy, with all these god things to do, but there’s been a bit of suffering going on for a while.
I’ve got a similar question about ID. If it took that long for humans to develop, with only a couple of nudges here and there, why not speed up the process at bit? Gods much have more patience that I do.
Irrelevant point when addressed to lekatt. He does not appear to subscribe to any particular denomination and certainly is not associated with the RCC. Your rhetorical device is akin to asking an atheist board member to defend an action by Joe Stalin on the odd notion that both are atheists.
Many Christians disavow the Crusades and Inquisition–heck, even a lot of Catholics put them down as errors undertaken by misguided church leaders. You get no traction with that sort of question.
Maybe, but what I’m trying to point out to him is that it’s not a sum zero game. It’s not either or-you don’t have to choose between science and religion, or beliefs. You can believe in God and still accept scientific truths.
So the idea that somehow science is trying to disprove religion is insane.
I can’t prove god doesn’t exist, I can’t prove leprechauns don’t exist, I can’t prove that an evil god who wants us to suffer doesn’t exist, and so on… But I’ve no evidences of such being existing, hence no reason to believe in any of the above.
Then, next question : yes, maybe it would be nicer if I believed in a pleasant afterlife (that’s assuming I pick the right religion. Some fundamentalists, honestly, believe in a god I’d rather not exist). But I don’t get to chose my beliefs on the basis of what would make me happier if it were real. I don’t believe in Santa Claus. I assume you don’t, either. However it would be nice to think that a bearbed guy is going to bring us presents 3 months down the road. Are you able in some way to make yourself believe in Santa Claus because it would be nice if he existed? I don’t think you can. Similarily, I can’t make myself believe in god, even if I were convinced I would be happier as a believer.
Shall we follow the origins of that myth to its bitter and depraved end? You do remember the so-called Tree of Knowledge, don’t you? And all the dire things God unleashed upon “His people” simply because Eve was “tempted” (tempted by one of God’s own creations, which presumably God—being omnipotent— could control, no less) into such a horrible & terrible thing as a search for understanding her place in the world and how the world functioned?
God is either a myth and can’t have “provided” anything. Or He’s a monster; the ultimate sociopath.
It’s not necessary to pick the right religion, because there is no right religion.
Of the thousands of spiritual experiences I have read, only a few of them follow the expected doctrine of some religion. In these cases the experiencer was a firm believer of that religion. By far the largest majority (90%), experience no religion. It can be said God has no religion.
So, define the God you would want to believe in. Not so much His looks, but as how He would interact with you. His emotional characteristics, does He punish for misdeeds, etc. Many atheists think God has been made up anyway, so make up your own God. Right. You would be happier believing in God, but not just any God.
I think this would be an interesting thread if someone wanted to start one on it.
I think clairobscur’s point, though, was that true belief isn’t really voluntary. You can’t make yourself believe in something you don’t actually believe in just because you think it might be nice to have such a belief.
If the existence of a god is an objective fact, as many believers insist, this just ain’t gonna work. It can’t work any better than making up your own objective reality which denies the existence of gravity - or evolution - to bring this thing back towards its original course.
Sure, John, but would anyone give a fuck if they weren’t trying to ram those Creationist beliefs into schools? Of course not.
As soon as the crazies out there start trying to have Big Foot, UFOs, and the Truth about the Bermuda Triangle in schools then their personal beliefs will be an issue. Until then, though, their beliefs are their own business.
-Joe
While I don’t recommend trying to make yourself believe in something, it’s done all the time. Most Christians believe in the Christian God, not through experience, but through teachings and repetitive rituals.
In light of ignorance of truth, tis better to chose a positive node than a negative one.
What, are you saying that a place under 24-hour surveillance where the search for knowledge is forbidden and sex is unheard of isn’t paradise? How odd.
Or better yet, do a little research.
They call that “high school.”
Would it surprise you to know that you make up your own objective reality every day of your life. (by your thoughts) (Spiritual truth)
I think it would work because who really knows about God. Do you believe the Bible is an accurate account, or do you believe another one of hundreds of other sacred tomes. If you do believe God has been defined share it with us.
Sure, and I’ll even go so far as to say that it’s wise to choose healthier thoughts. But
a) Some of us realize that religious thoughts are not necessarily healthy, and
b) If you arrive at those thoughts by ignoring all evidence to the contrary, that’s not healthy. That’s wishful thinking.
So this is what agreeing with UncleBeer feels like.
Weird. I thought I’d feel dirtier. 
-Joe
Where God is time isn’t. Eternity is not a long time, it’s an absense of time.
Patience is good to learn, keeps the blood pressure down.
Lekatt, your form of rigid belief, i.e. if you accept evolution, you must be opposed to religion is something which can do just as much damage as any form of science, if not more. I’ve suffered from severe clinical depression for most of my life. While I won’t say it’s cured, it is under control thanks to two things: (1) my faith in God and the support my church gives me, and (2) the anti-depressants I’ve taken and therapy I’ve undergone. My health is due to both science and faith, and not due to my faith in science. On the other hand, I’ve known people who have been damaged because they cannot get their minds and their beliefs to conform to those around them.
CJ
Haw! An excellent and most sardonic comment on the current political topography of the Union. You are to be congratulated, sir. Really; I mean that sincerely.
Just goes to show, nearly everybody’s got some common ground somewhere. The search for such often leads to some weird places, tho’.
Yeah, that would surprise me - greatly. What you’re describing, however, is not objective reality; it is subjective reality. Which is an oxymoron. Reality is a concrete thing; it cannot be altered by mere opinion. Objective reality consists of things like atoms and the laws of physics. My thoughts about a deity (whether he’s mythical, or real) in no way affects the turning of the earth.
I agree fully, but we are not talking about religious thoughts here.
One should not agnore any evidence, for or against something as important as God. There is plenty on both sides.
Now, which thoughts do you consider unhealthy.