[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
*I participated in a code on a doctor who dropped while making rounds. He did not make it. The room was in tears.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yes. Mom was a Hospice Nurse for years. Every few months, she’d let it all out. Might NOT have been something that day, but she’d vent it out. Otherwise, my god…
It seems like there was a thread about this not more than a month ago…I believe it was started in the Pit by someone whose teenaged daughter was yelled at at her movie theater job.
Anyhow, it looks like no one has posted yet in this one that often when women get furious they cry instead of slamming things around, yelling, and stomping off the way men do. It doesn’t mean they’re weak and delicate and fragile, it means they’re pissed off and haven’t been socialized to handle it the way men do.
I can’t think of any good reason why the male reaction is acceptable but the female one isn’t.
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire]
It seems like there was a thread about this not more than a month ago…I believe it was started in the Pit by someone whose teenaged daughter was yelled at at her movie theater job.
Anyhow, it looks like no one has posted yet in this one that often when women get furious they cry instead of slamming things around, yelling, and stomping off the way men do. It doesn’t mean they’re weak and delicate and fragile, it means they’re pissed off and haven’t been socialized to handle it the way men do.
I can’t think of any good reason why the male reaction is acceptable but the female one isn’t.
[/QUOTE]
The only times when I’ve cried on the job is when I was so angry that I couldn’t express it any other way without screaming at the person who made me angry. Since I was in a customer service field in almost every instance (with the other two being related to the boss jerking me around too many times), there was no other recourse except to bottle it up (which often led to tears anyway) or let it out. Would it have been better if I decided I was going to yell at a customer who was too angry, too stupid, or too old to understand my point of view?
I don’t think I have ever cried at work, but I came pretty close last year. I’d been studying for two years to become a teacher, and my wife and I had gone through some lean times to get me through school. It’s something I’d been wanting to do for about a decade. And when I finally got in the classroom, I was blindsided by how tough the class was, disciplinewise; it was a combination of my mild manner and (according to many longterm teachers) an exceptionally difficult combination of kids. When my principal called me in and rightly chewed me out for the discipline problems I was having in the room, I came pretty close to breaking down. I was afraid, with good reason, that I was going to lose the job and flub an ambition I’d been working toward for years.
Things got much better, but that time was rough.
Daniel
Yup, done the anger/stress/frustration tears a few times. My current job is both highly stressful and highly loved, and right now there are a lot of things going on that anger me (dealing with a useless/destructive board, losing good, devoted employees because they are fed up with the bullshit, a triple financial whammy that could put the whole place in jeopardy, 70+ hour work weeks). I’m handling the stress better right now, but one more thing could put me over the edge.
Best part about my job right now is an office with a door in case I need to whip out the Kleenex instead of putting my fist through a wall (bad idea - I broke a couple fingers that way several years ago. Crying hurts less and requires fewer explanations)
[QUOTE=Bricker]
But if someone cries at work over a work-related disappointment, a job critique, or the like, my reaction is that they’re unprofessional. As a general rule, then, I’d say that I feel tears at work are not justified.
[/QUOTE]
I think you might be judging some people too harshly. I have never cried at work about work but I have in fact cried there.
I would advise caution in assuming you know what’s going on and even then not everyone is a pillar of strength. Some people are more sensitive than others. That’s just the way it is. But rest assured I do see your point. I would lose faith in you (as a lawyer) if you started crying while discussing my case.
I HATE crying in front of people, but I do tend to get teary if I’m angry or frustrated. I think I’ve cried in front of my students only twice in twenty years of teaching – not bawling or sobbing, but tears running down my face : my mother dying with advanced breast cancer, and announcing last spring that I was diagnosed with cancer, and when they saw me in the fall I’d be bald. If your students respect you, they don’t think less of you for being human now and then.
I have cried at work, and once at school.
At work it was because of anger, frustration, and an overall sadness at a story a coworker was telling me, and how he would now cope with certain situations. I don’t recall the details, really, but he is from Sri Lanka, he has had family members (including his father and sister) killed violently due to the war there, and has been on the receiving end of some horrible racism and discrimination, even here in Canada. I forget the scenario, but he very bluntly was saying that he’d react violently (and even murderously) in response to something… it’s too convoluted to summarize here without getting too personal about the story, but basically the emotions of his background and his opinions on things got to me, and I cried. People saw my tears, but I went to the bathroom and calmed down and came back out a few minutes later. Some time later we talked about it, and he was amazed that I would care enough about him to have so much emotion about his situation, and he apologized for it. All-in-all totally unrelated to work, but since our jobs were more manual that focused work, all kinds of conversations were the norm, and this one just turned to something that was too complex and emotional for work. A few people had left the room during it, and one of them told me later that it was because they were getting too upset to think about the issues being discussed.
The time at school was actually more recent, and I am still embarassed about it, and I struggle over feeling it was completely inappropriate, or a natural response to the circumstances. As a bit of background, I’ve returned to school for a second degree in order to change careers; it’s been a hard choice, with a lot of sacrifices, but definitely the right path for me. In any case, the time I cried, 99% of the issues were mine; I was sleep deprived, nearing the end of my semester at school, I had just handed in a project that I had worked my ass of on, and then I went to the department office with the intention of just getting a name of someone I could contact over the summer regarding questions related to my application to a program. The person at the desk went to get another woman, and rather than simply answer my question she just asked me “Are you sure you really want into this program? It’s not for everybody. A lot of people apply, and you need a really good GPA, and unless you have at least a 3.3 there’s no point even trying to talk to someone about it”
I burst into tears from the shock! Here I was trying to be responsible and make sure I was taking all the right steps, just asking for a contact name and/or email to get a few questions answered over the summer, and suddenly I had to justify myself? I’ve worked too hard, and given up way too much to get where I am, and I know that this program is the right path for me. I couldn’t believe she was basically questioning my life choices based on two words her secretary had told her!
I totally lost it…but…
…it was way too much of an overreaction because as it turned out, the woman’s response was somewhat fair given the question she thought I was asking, as it had been reported to her by the person at the front desk!
Just an all-'round miscommunication, but at that moment, I just snapped! It was weird, but a few more words managed to sort out what had gone wrong, but I was still pretty much bawling. She was very kind, brought me into an empty room and brought me a glass of juice, and a few more minutes later I calmed down, and was able to lay out my situation much more clearly, and in the end, I got the advice I needed. She was really nice, and I appreciate her help. I just feel that I must have come across as a completely crazy person in her eyes!
Oh, and as for the GPA issues… nevermind the 3.3, I have myself a 3.8. And I got into the program.
I’m amazed you consider it “unprofessional.” I can’t speak for anyone else, but believe me when I say that I do not cry by design, purpose, or even remote willingness. I rarely cry, but when I’m furious or when someone tells me something I’ve done wrong about which I was totally clueless, I’ll get shiny eyed and hoarse, and may have a tear or two spill over, which I hastily dash away. I don’t want it to happen. I try desperately not to let it happen. If it were a matter of either will power or professional attitude, it never would happen. But I don’t have any choice in the matter.
On the other hand, I cry like a baby at books, movies, TV, anything that isn’t real. I’ve cried over commercials. Very weird.
[QUOTE=maggenpye]
“Everyone gets to a point in this job where they have to decide if they can do it or not. The guys hit things because they’re not allowed to cry, the women cry because they’re not allowed to hit things - then they decide. See you in two minutes.”
[/QUOTE]
Smart boss. I’ve cried when I would have preferred not to, but I physically could not control myself. It’s unsettling to think that someone would judge me for that reaction or find it manipulative. I’d rather someone sob and blubber than raise their voice and punch something.
[QUOTE=Oy!]
If it were a matter of either will power or professional attitude, it never would happen. But I don’t have any choice in the matter.
[/QUOTE]
It is possible to train yourself not to express emotions, so I think if you do practice, you’d be able to postpone the tears until you were alone.
All I can tell you is that I have desperately done my best on several occasions, and failed. Since it takes very specific conditions to bring me to tears (except with respect to stories, which aren’t what’s being discussed here), it’s not like I’m in a position to practice or train. My eyes brim up, my nose almost certainly reddens, and my voice gets croaky (occasionally a tear rolls down). It’s pretty obvious to all but the most obtuse that I’m trying like hell to suppress, or at least hide, it. Also, bear in mind I don’t cry because “people are mean to me.” I cry when I’m extremely angry or when I’ve been called on something I suddenly I am forced to recognize is true and therefore and I truly and seriously fucked up, entirely my own fault. I’ve been almost suicidal about those latter.
I also agree with the several people who have mentioned that many women, especially older women like me, are far more likely to express their rage with tears than with serious screaming matches or physical blows. We simply were taught not to express fury directly practically from day one.
I guess what I’m driving at here is that while some people may be able to train themselves, others can’t because they simply don’t have enough occasions to get practice. I certainly haven’t on those rare occasions, and it’s had nothing to do with being ill or having something bad going on in non-work life. So how do you advise someone like me to get practice? I’d happily take advice; I do *not * enjoy drying at work!
I keep a box of Kleenex handy for the three-four students who break down in my office each semester. It’s usually over a conglomeration of school and personal stresses and I’m glad that they feel safe enough to come talk to me. FTR, most of my crying students are male.
When I was in my early 20s I worked at a sick place that was run by an alcoholic-hate-each-other-lying couple. They considered it a good day when they had half the staff in tears and the other half threatening to quit. I cried a few times at that job until I resolved not to play into their twisted games (and quite a year later).
I had a professional cryer work for me once. The first few times I could attribute it to abnormal life stresses; the next 45 times were sorted under the “drama-queen-who-causes-own-problems-and-relishes-the-attention” genre. I got to the point where I would make her leave the work area and go outside until she composed herself, as she was a disturbance and distraction.
[QUOTE=Oy!]
So how do you advise someone like me to get practice? I’d happily take advice
[/QUOTE]
From your description, it sounds like you might benefit from practice in being comfortable expressing anger and using assertive communication skills. I totally buy what you said about being socialized not to express anger. That doesn’t mean you can’t learn a little bit now, though. And assertive communication skills can often head things off at the pass before they push people over the edge. There are lots of resources out there.
Count me as another fan of what **maggenpye’s ** boss said “The guys hit things because they’re not allowed to cry, the women cry because they’re not allowed to hit things.”
The only time I’ve cried at work was after the following:
Late October, get home a Friday morning from the supermarket, there’s a call in my answering machine. It’s from the factory manager, asking me to come in “at my convenience as soon as possible.”
After discovering that my sphincter control is fine, thanks, change clothes, break the speed of nava but not the speed limit, see factory manager and find out it’s about replacing my direct manager for a big project: the project involves a lot of travel, which gives me the yays and him the donwannas.
Be told I’m not going to London on the early december trip, as I’m not needed there.
Spend the first weekend in december working the night shift (6pm to 6am). Arrive home on Monday, with still 2 days to go (it’s a 4-day weekend) at 7am. Be awakened at 11am, by the factory manager, who has discovered that yes, I’m very much needed in London. Call Mom to send brother over with clean businessy clothes, as the ones I have in my house are all in the laundry basket. Grab the backpack from his hands as I jump into my car. Drive to an airport 240km away in time to catch the 3pm plane to London.
Spend the week working my ass off. Contact direct manager trying to obtain information on how he wants certain things done; be told to “do whatever you think will work and don’t bother me.”
Get back on a flight that lands at 10pm on Friday. At 11pm, come down from the adrenaline high that’s had me at jet altitude since Monday, stop in a rest area and sleep for a couple hours before going on.
On Monday, report to direct manager and get yelled at, top of his lungs (people heard him from outside the building) because he didn’t agree with my decisions. Be threatened with getting fired.
Yeah, when the “team captain” for the implementation asked me “what the heck was that about?” I broke down in tears.
She helped me calm down but what really made my day was when the factory manager heard the explanation and said “ah no, he said you decided and therefore your decisions are the ones that go. If he wanted it to be his decisions, he should have taken the trip himself.” She then walked into his office, reamed his ass without raising her voice at all and made him apologize.
I don’t like people who cry at the drop of a hat and loathe those who I see as using tears to make others do their work - but everybody can be having a bad day. You (generic you) never know who’s having a medical problem, or has just lost someone who meant a lot to them, or…
[QUOTE=Fiveroptic]
I pointed and he said, “I know that sorry son of a bitch. Somebody needs to kick his ass out in the parking lot. Might just happen sooner than expected.”
[/QUOTE]
That was a very sad story. If this guy is known for mistreating the kid, why hasn’t anyone called the authorities yet?
To answer the OP, I’m a medical student and I have had a few patients who made me tear up…like the time I was present at a patient’s death and her family reacted in a way that was very hard-hitting and poignant. There is a lot of emotional distancing in medicine because you’d go crazy if you took all the pain and sadness that you see personally…but sometimes these things do get to you.
I’m in product management. I also feel that crying is ok sometimes, but not regularly.
I’ve cried once in my manager’s office since I started this job two and a half years ago. It was when my one-year-old son had been extremely sick (so sick I couldn’t wake him up one day) and was recovering, then I was threatened with firing by the person above my boss for leaving early to get him, then when I returned to work after he was doing better, was informed by the same person senior to my boss that I was required to produce a comprehensive suite of marketing pieces - all final - within eight days. This package required the collaboration of an outside vendor, marketing, our print vendors and my own senior management. It was just too much for me. My boss was very supportive and I managed to do it, but it was awful.
On the other hand, one of our product managers is extremely young and insecure. She attempts to project this obnoxious confidence and most of our department detest her. She frequently bites off more than she can chew and finds herself without any support and has regular breakdowns from stress where she dissolves into a puddle of tears. I’m guessing she’ll hang herself eventually, but in the meantime, it’s irritating to have her show up at my desk only to have to walk her downstairs to calm down.
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]
Agreed. That’s a ridiculous stereotype. When I got married I wrote a thank-you letter to my grandfather for everything he’d done over the years and he bawled like a freaking baby for about 5 minutes straight.
Since we’ve been together I’ve seen my husband cry probably 10 times at least, usually out of concern for family members but a couple times while watching films. I had an ex who cried so much and so often that his emotional immaturity disgusted me. Men cry.
Regarding the OP, crying over petty drama at work is unprofessional. If you have a stressful life/death job and are crying frequently, there’s a possibility you may want to look into another line of work.
I work in nonprofit debt counseling and it’s not uncommon for someone to occasionally (once every two months or so) break down after a stressful call. It isn’t hidden from other coworkers because to an extent we rely on one another’s emotional support during the tough times. Usually talking about it for a minute or so afterward will prevent a breakdown like that.
The other day I spent several minutes on the phone trying to comfort a woman who was completely isolated from family and friends, disabled and in dire financial straits. She could not stop sobbing and talking about how badly she wanted to end her life and how alone she felt. I had to refer her to a Suicide Hotline. It was that much harder because I know personally how difficult it is to live with depression and how hard it is to see beyond the present moment when you’re feeling that way. I did my very best to hold my shit together while on the phone, but afterward I did break down, quietly, for a good 30 seconds. I don’t think it’s unprofessional at all, but if I dealt with those situations all day and every day (and someday I might) I would have to learn how to maintain emotional distance enough to effectively do my job.
I’ve cried occasionally at work over other things, but I usually lock myself in a bathroom stall and do it quietly.
As a general rule I think crying goes with any other extreme display of emotion in the workplace – not very professional, but happens occasionally because we’re human beings, not robots. Once in a while it’s fine. If someone cannot continually handle the stress of their job and is crying on a regular basis, they either have emotion regulation issues and need psychological help or they are working in an unhealthy environment and need a better job.
[/QUOTE]
That’s because you women are more in touch with those..uh…what do you call those things again?
…Emotions! Yeah, that’s it. Emotions.
Sometimes people cry. Different people have different levels of emotional control and different ways of reacting. It matters how you deal with it - if you’re out there in public causing a scene, that’s a problem. If you go in the back until you’re in control of yourself, that’s fine. If you’re using it to manipulate people, you’re a douche. And yes, men are allowed to cry.
Aside from the retail workers I have seen deliberately bullied into tears by asshole bosses and customers, I have two stories.
I was really pissed off, because through my years as a temp I had been nothing but sweet and friendly and professional while I bent over and took the BS that temp agencies put you through. I was polite and accommodating and as nice as I could be, because I knew as a temp I didn’t have anything going for me except my 70wpm and my ability to put up with shit without complaining. And in return I got FIRED!!
So in my rage I composed a rant in my mind, along the lines of “what the fuck does it take for someone with a university education and office admin experience to get better than a minimum-wage slave job around here?” Gawd it sounded good in my head. I walked into the closest Kelly’s and started letting it out, but of course I was so upset that I couldn’t do it without crying, so I basically threw my first and only temper tantrum right there and then. After I regained my composure the poor woman said “How fast can you type?” and I sniffled “70wpm” so - right there and then - she offered me a MUCH better job than I had ever had, still admin but in an office relevant to my field of study, and paying much better than the one I had just been sacked from.
I was delighted with the outcome (I considered sending a thank-you note to the bitch who fired me) but sorry that such behaviour was rewarded. I like to think that hard work and qualifications are better for getting you a job than temper tantrums, but such was not the case.
++++
At my current job I confess I do tear up at work occasionally. But my work involves people like this. I heard about a little boy of about 1 who was constantly tugging at his earlobe for no reason his parents could see. He tugged and tugged and tugged until it bled and got scabby and infected but he kept tugging. His parents found out that he wasn’t the only little kid in town to experience something like this, so they saved up to be able to get them tested. They discovered in their environment the abundance of a chemical that interferes with the growth of the inner ear. So the poor little tykes are literally being poisoned by their environment to the extent that they are harming themselves. He was tugging and tugging because his ear itched, because there are 63 chemical plants immediately surrounding his community, and my government permits those chemical plants to dump their shit into the little boy’s air and water without penalty. I always think that I have reached the saturation point with stuff like this - I can no longer be shocked by the depths to which humanity can plunge - but I can’t help but cry when I hear about all the women who miscarry, and little kids who are sick and hurting and dying, and adults whose bodies break down by their twenties. Damn right I cry at work sometimes. If I didn’t I would not be human.