Crying Italian Indian

[Amateur_Barbarian]

Actually, the “Indian crying over pollution” ad is infamous for at least two reasons. One is that the actor who played the Indian was Italian. (Okay, no big deal, it’s Hollywood.)

The real problem with that ad is that it focused attention on individual polluters, slovenly droppers of cigarette butts and hot dog wrappers. It was the start of a concerted campaign to focus attention there, instead of on the huge industrial polluters whose contributions to the problem dwarfed the odd littered beach.

If I recall correctly, someone traced some of the funding for this and a couple of companion ads back to major industrial contributors.

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• Another fine production from Nitrosyncretic Press *

[system]

Here’s the link to the column:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mindiantear.html

And a reminder to please post the link to the column when you start a new topic. Thanks.
[Note: This message has been edited by CKDextHavn]

[Beruang]

In his later years, Mr. Cody made something of a pest of himself to the folks at the Gene Autry Western Heritage Museum in LA. He took to donating “artifacts” of dubious woth, after first scrawling “Property of Iron Eyes Cody” over them, and then complaining when they weren’t displayed. (One item which could be turned to hide the damage did go on exhibit.)

[beirne]

The Crying Italian Indian commercial wasn’t the first one to try to get individuals to improve their own behavior. The was a big campaign throughout a lot of the 60’s to get people to stop littering, and this was just another take on the theme. And yes, while you could have shown his canoe dissolving in the toxic river, it makes more sense in a public service commercial to deal with something that people can do something about directly.

[Big_Iron]

Oh, Eut! You misspelled Yastrzemski.

[Eutychus]

I blame society.

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Saint Eutychus
www.disneyshorts.org

[Fiver]

Euty, someone over on LiveJournal is questioning the questioning of Cody’s ethnicity. Is there any corroboration of his Italianness apart from the two newspaper stories?

Apparently Cody’s son has become a crusader for Native American rights.

[Mr.X_1]

This is just a classic case of willful misinformation. I’m surprised they didn’t say the world is flat while they were at it. After all, I can find references that say the world is flat, therefore it’s obviously a big conspiracy, right? NASA says the world is round, and has pictures, so it’s clearly a government coverup!

In short, they found 892 pieces of evidence saying that he was a genuine American Indian, and 2 pieces of evidence saying that he wasn’t, and going with those 2 pieces of evidence made for a more interesting and lengthy article.

If he was faking it, then he did a damn good job of it, because his sons inherited the whole nine yards, as they are under the genuine impression that they are of Native American heritage.

Bottom line, The Straight Dope saw a chance to post a ludicrous article based on ridiculous fringe stories they dug up because that’s the sort of thing that attracts readers. They probably make good money writing for The National Enquirer using much of the same techniques.

[samclem]

http://webarchives.net/documents/make_believe_indian.htm

Makes for interesting reading.

In short, they found 892 pieces of evidence saying that he was a genuine American Indian, and 2 pieces of evidence saying that he wasn’t, and going with those 2 pieces of evidence made for a more interesting and lengthy article.

Mr. X Care to post some of those 892 pieces of evidence? I thought not.

I do feel sorry for his sons, perhaps.

[samclem]

Aleiss, the film historian, heard the rumor after coming to UCLA as a postdoctoral scholar in 1992. Curious, she obtained a copy of Iron Eyes: My Life as a Hollywood Indian, the autobiography, and found it “so riddled with inaccuracies related to movie history” that she determined to find out more about Cody. What she discovered surprised her. Although Cody professed to be an Oklahoma Cherokee, in early biographical material, he had claimed that he was born in Texas. Furthermore, while not necessarily conclusive, there was no record of his enrollment with the Cherokee Nation. Although unable to locate any records to show where he was born, or to whom, Aleiss’ sleuthing paid off after she obtained a document pertaining to Iron Eyes’ younger brother Frank. Based on information provided by Frank’s widow, his death certificate had erroneously listed his place of birth as Texas. But on a long-ago application for a Social Security card, Frank Cody had written his real birthplace: Gueydan, Louisiana. Hopeful, but without mentioning Iron Eyes’ name, she put in a call to the library there requesting information about Frank. Several days later, she says, a librarian called back with the information: " ‘Oh, by the way, did you know Frank Cody was the brother of Iron Eyes Cody, the actor?’ "

I apologize for quoting such a lengthy segment of the article from the link which I posted above. I thought it shows how a true researcher, trying to arrive at the truth of a matter, approaches a subject. As opposed to registering, dissing everyone and everything in sight, suggesting that the SDMB employs techniques of trash newspapers, and backing it up with NOTHING.

Still waiting.

[Mr.X_1]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/04/obit.cody/

He was born in Oklahoma, but the exact date of birth wasn’t known. Reference books give various dates, from 1904 to 1915. Based on his credits, his most likely date of birth was 1907.

Cody followed his Cherokee Indian father, Thomas Long Plume, as a performer in circuses and Wild West shows and made his first film appearance as an extra in the 1919 silent “Back to God’s Country.”

[Mr.X_1]

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/99/01/st010517.html

Originally dubbed “Little Eagle,” Oscar Cody, who was part Cherokee and part Cree, was born on an Oklahoma farm. He received his first taste of movie-making as a child, when a Paramount Pictures crew used his family’s farm for location shooting in 1919.

Within a year, the Codys relocated to Hollywood, where the boy’s father, Thomas Longplume Cody, worked as a technical adviser on many early Westerns.

[Mr.X_1]

http://obits.com/ironeyescody.html

Cody was known for his strong feelings about how Native Americans should be depicted in the media. He often corrected myths and errors in scripts. Cody’s Cherokee father took him traveling at an early age. They visited Native American tribes and Cody learned much about his culture on the way

I should also mention that his place of birth is immaterial. The Straight Dope article claims he’s of italian heritage, which I can’t find any evidence of at all. All accounts say his father was Cherokee, not an italian immigrant as TSD claims.

[Mr.X_1]

http://www.treecody.com/bio.cfm

This is one of his son’s sites. He seems to be a quite successful native american musician. I’m sure he’d be interested in knowing that A) he’s italian and B) Joe Shmoe feels sorry for him.

[samclem]

Mr. X

I am curious as to your interest in the subject. Are you Native American? Are you related? Why such an emotional attachment? Not that that is bad.

I must confess that I posted rather quickly to the subject. I found the “evidence” rather compelling that Ms. Aleiss’s research was rather better than self-serving biographies. But I could always be wrong.

After reflection, I do have something to contribute in your favor(or in favor of Iron Eyes).

If you go back and read Ms. Aleiss’s article and the quotes from Ms. Duhon, the half-sister of Iron Eyes, you will see that Ms. Duhon’s memories of Cody

“When he was a little bitty thing, he would be the Indian when the kids played [cowboys and Indians]. He would tell people that when he grew up he was going to be a movie star.”

were almost certainly not her first-hand memories. Using birth dates in the article, Cody was born in 1904. Ms. Duhon in 1916. So, if we assume that she couldn’t not have had significant memories of Cody’s games before she was 6-8 years old, then Cody would have been 18-20. Not exactly “a little bitty” guy. So she was probably repeating what her mother(or some other relative) told her. I will concede that most all of her info would be from her mother.

I’d also love to explore further the info of Charles Alley, the “family friend” and father of Ron Howard’s wife. He got to LA when Cody was 34 years old. Alley was 22. It is never mentioned how Alley knew about the hometown connection of Cody.

Having said this, I still lean towards the Louisiana connection. The Jay Silverheels testimony, even though it was from Silverheels’ wife. The Alley testimony. Why would he lie? And, he was in Los Angeles in the circle in the 30’s-40’s.

I guess that is my overriding question. Why would so many varied people make this up? Did they invent it out of whole cloth? A conspiracy?

Did Cody have brothers, Frank and Joe? Did Joe room with Jay Silverheels and Cody in a rooming house in LA? How could Aleiss invent a connection with Gueydan, Louisiana if Frank hadn’t written his birthplace on a Social Security application? Do you believe that Frank wasn’t his brother? That Frank never wrote that his birthplace was Gueydan, LA?

The preponderance of evidence is against Iron Eyes(uless you count web sites that repeat the same old tired regurgitation of his biography).

I guess I just dont’ understand why you think people are out to bring him down. What would be their/our motives? Most people on this board would only like to find out the Straight Dope.

[Saltire]

I’d like to point out that obituaries are usually poor sources, since most newspapers and online news sites don’t actually research them. Of the three you posted, the first two apparently came from the same wire service piece, so they probably aren’t actually independant. The third may also have the same source, though it doesn’t admit it.

It generally isn’t worth the time of a news source to check facts too closely for an obit. While I haven’t looked at enough sources to judge things, it may be that the stories quoted by Eutychus are the only one’s out there that have been checked out carefully.

Another question that needs answered: What was the heritage of Cody’s wife? I see from the link provided that Robert “Tree” Cody is affiliated with the Maricopa/Dakota nation. If Iron Eyes said he was Cherokee, his son may be identifying with his mother’s people. Thus, his status as a native may say nothing about his father. Though I do note that Robert mentions his father and not his mother in his web bio.

[Mr.X_1]

I am curious as to your interest in the subject. Are you Native American? Are you related? Why such an emotional attachment? Not that that is bad.

I’m allergic to opinion that gets stated as fact. I found several articles that specifically mentioned his father as an American Indian as well as the work he did, but none of the claims that talk about his parents being italian immigrants seem to have any supporting evidence. To me, it smacks of the usual brand of mild celebrity hate. It pleases some people to knock other, more successful people down a notch, and using uncorroborated stories is a handy way to do that. For The Straight Dope to pick up on those and post them as fact is irresponsible, especially with the volume of counter-evidence.

At the very least, they could have presented both sides of the story and left it at that. Instead, they seemed to just pick a fringe story and run with it.

Call me an anti-conspiritist. If there’s one thing mainstream media loves to do, it’s dig up dirt and be the first out to press with it. The fact that every mainsteam news source agreed on his obituary while one fringe element did not would lead me to believe the mainstream version. TSD takes the common “conspiracy theory” position that if anyone anywhere disagrees with the mainstream, then that person must be right, and the rest is just a coverup.

That sort of thinking annoys me to no end.

Whether he was born in Louisiana or not seems to be immaterial to me. Lacking a birth cirtificate, I’m sure he said he was born whereever his parents told him he was. Now if they had proof that his parents came over on a ship from Europe, that’s another thing. The claim that they were from Italy doesn’t seem to be backed up anywhere, but TSD printed it as truth. Saying he’s an American Indian from Louisiana is one thing, saying he’s of Italian heritage just seems like some silly nonsense someone made up. Maybe one of the Cody’s ran over their dog, who’s to say?

Just seems like it’s an awfully far flung fringe story to start casting it out as some sort of hidden truth. I think we have, in this thread, spent more time on research than TSD did.

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

<< At the very least, they could have presented both sides of the story and left it at that. Instead, they seemed to just pick a fringe story and run with it. >>

I think that Eutychus did present the “official” version, and did say "According to an article by … " and “verified by…” There’s a limit to how many times you can say “alleged” in a short article without becoming incomprehensibobble.

“This is the [American] West. When the truth conflicts with the legend, print the legend.” – From The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

[samclem]

Mr. X said

The claim that they were from Italy doesn’t seem to be backed up anywhere, but TSD printed it as truth. Saying he’s an American Indian from Louisiana is one thing, saying he’s of Italian heritage just seems like some silly nonsense someone made up.

The claim that they were from Italy was backed up by Jay Silverheels, who presumably wasn’t lying when he said he talked to brother Joe in the boarding house. Joe said they were from Italian parents. Ron Howard’s father-in-law who was around in the time period in question seems to think that Cody was from Italian parents. Ms. Duhon, Cody’s half-sister seems to think that her Italian mother indicated that her half-brother, Cody, was from Italian parents.

Frank, Cody’s brother, applied for Social Security benefits with the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, listing his place of birth as Gueydon. If the Federal Government recognizes his claim, who are we to doubt it. (This is facetious).

There are a lot of people from Gueydon, LA. who seem to know a story about the family. I have yet to hear about anyone from Cody’s family who can give firsthand(heck, I’ll take even second-hand) info about life in OKLA, TEXAS, as an Indian, born into a Cherokee tribe, etc.

If you can come up with the " Paramount Picture Crew" that used Cody’s Oklahoma farm in 1919 for a location shoot, I’d be surprised. I’ll bet that there weren’t any Oklahoma sites that were used for filming Hollywood movies in 1919. Prove me wrong.

You said

TSD takes the common “conspiracy theory” position that if anyone anywhere disagrees with the mainstream, then that person must be right, and the rest is just a coverup.

I disagree. Either you have only read these boards for a short period, or you are just in denial. The board is composed af individuals who will not let crap slide.
Now here’s my “far flung theory.”

You are somehow very personally involved in the Cody story. You have a personal interest. You are not some “lurker” who has been reading the boards for months/years.

You registered about the time the subject was brought to the boards. You HAVE a personal interest. You aren’t just interested because you wandered here by accident. You somehow knew about the subject being posted here.

We’re glad you’re here. If you can add any factual information to the debate, then please supply it. That’s what the SDMB is all about. Helping to understand, and to add to the knowledge of all. But you’re gonna’ have to supply some facts.

[Mr.X_1]

Here’s the closest I could find to a film reference:
http://www.lariat.org/AtTheMovies/backtocountry.html

It’s a Canadiam film, and while it’s noted on multiple websites, none of them have a list of film locations. Not surprising there, since that sort of thing usually isn’t mentioned in film reviews. I doubt that information is even available anymore, unless it’s listed (and still legible) somewhere on the film itself.

You are somehow very personally involved in the Cody story. You have a personal interest. You are not some “lurker” who has been reading the boards for months/years.

Just as you know me so well, I know you. You’re a debunker. You debunk. The mass media is controlled by the government, only telling people what the head of the CIA wants them to hear. Thank god people like me have people like you on their side, who will go to no end to dig until someone somewhere tells them a rumor that sounds different than what CNN said. That rumor is the hidden truth, gloriously uncovered by you, the savior of humanity, who incidentally watched The Conspiracy Theory about 48 times too many.
“The truth may be out there, but the lies are in your head.” - Terry Pratchett