Some people do feel that trans-racial adoption is wrong, and view it as something like kidnapping.
you’ve said “no it isn’t” and then agreed with me.
I’m a little hazy on what exactly cultural appropriation is, and why it’s ok in some situations, and not others.
I mean, if I dress as a cowboy, it’s entirely legitimate, being that my ancestors in Texas predate the Civil War.
But if I dress as a Mountie, is that cultural appropriation? The closest I come to Canada is a graduate school buddy whose family was from near Calgary.
Or if I dress as a Scottish clansman? I’m not British, although I do have some Scottish ancestors. Same thing for dressing like a Viking.
Why would it be any different if I dressed as a Zulu warrior, or Aztec priest? Or as a Karankawa tribesman? (the part of Texas where I grew up was populated by the Karankawa tribe, so maybe marginally more acceptable, especially since they’re extinct)
Exactly.
We are perfectly free to appropriate whatever cultural element we want. But someone else is also perfectly free to say impolite things in response.
People are also free to feel negatively about something. I don’t think I’m an offenderati, but I do get annoyed by stupid stuff. Rachel Dolezal doesn’t offend me. She annoys me. Watching Mylie Cyrus try to perpetrate streed cred by twerking isn’t offensive to me. But I did find that shit annoying enough to flip the channel.
In other words, something can be non-offensive and still be disliked.
The attacks during the creation of the album focused on the Apartheid issue.
Once the album was released, several (generally–not exclusively–non-South African) people attacked him for “appropriating” the music.
Even those who admire Paul Simon’s artistic bravery and foresight acknowledge that there was something troubling about a wealthy American star appropriating African and Latin American pop.
If I tell you that every American harbors racist beliefs and prejudice, am I being a racist?
I do not believe that the pendulum method of righting wrongs is one to which to aspire. Going overboard in a “correcting” direction might be understandable; it is hardly efficacious.
I don’t know if Simon should have given Los Lobos songwriting credit or not. I really don’t.
But it’s funny, and says something about this whole debate, that the comment in that article comes from Los Lobos member Steve Berlin, who is not, as far as I know, Latino (is he appropriating Latin American pop by playing with Los Lobos?), and it’s funny that Los Lobos might well qualify as “wealthy American star[s]” (depending on your cutoff for “wealthy” and your definition of “American”).
The role of Thor was assigned to a woman, by Odin…in a fucking comic book. It’s impossible to take it seriously. Should Germans be offended by Baron Strucker, or Africans by T’Challa? You might just as well be offended by Uhura and Chekov. Get real.
What, like every single culture on Earth? Yes, I do. Irish, French, Canadian and French-Canadian in my case.
The term “respect” comes back a lot. Anybody want to take a crack at giving us a definition that would allow us to determine whether or not something is respectful?
Peremensoe says it has to include understanding the meaning and only applying it in a sincere way.
Let’s say I want to make a cocktail with sake. Sake is used in Shinto rituals in Japan. I shouldn’t? It’s out of its “meaning context” since I just want to experiment to see if I’d like the taste. Do I need to read up on the history of sake before making a cocktail with it? How do I use sake sincerely? What’s an insincere use of sake?
Is it different if I want to open a bar and serve sake-based cocktails? Do I need to give customers a lecture about the history and religious meaning of sake before I serve it to them?
I’m thinking of incorporating aspects of Japanese and African sculptures into a computer graphics project. The project itself has nothing to do with Japanese and African art; I want to avoid having to render realistic human faces so I want to replace them with something interesting and African and Japanese sculptures are two of many options that seem like they’ll do a good job. No go?
What do I need to learn before I use them?
I also want to use anime-style proportions and the general concept of “kawaii” in some CG models. How do I sincerely use anime-style body proportions and kawaii? What do I need to learn about them? I suppose those questions are moot because I really don’t think I’ll be using them in their original context (what’s the original context of Japanese anime & kawaii?) so it’s a no go.
See, when you try to generalize it, it all falls apart, because it’s not really about a universal principle of how people should treat other cultures. It’s about specific historical grievances between specific peoples. Many old wrongs have been buried and forgotten, but some are still alive and still making people angry. There isn’t necessarily any consistent logic to it.
White people already do it to themselves. Insert picture of a woman wearing an American flag bikini here.
Japanese people do a lot of weird things with Christian symbolism because to them it’s exotic. I don’t think it would offend anyone but fundamentalists, though.
I always kinda preferred this one - The Mel Brooks Hitler rap. Probably shouldn’t watch that at work.
MichaelEmouse, minstrel shows are a clear example of disrespectful cultural appropriation.
I think modern commercialism promotes a certain degree of disrespect. If something gets a big enough following, it becomes mass-produced, which then cheapens and kitsch-ifies it. Suddenly a revered object becomes just another dust-laden tchotchke on Grandma’s break front. I’m not sentimental about anything, so this doesn’t trouble me none. But I can still understand why someone may not want to see a cultural token turned into a Happy Meal toy, especially if everything else about that culture is marginalized or stigmatized. I know the first thing I think of when I think of the Navajo isn’t an actual person or group of people, but those blankets with the funky print you can get at Walmart for $9.99. No one wants their identity reduced to a $9.99 trinket.
Every culture has things it values, sure. Not every person identifies with a culture enough to feel that.
What do you have in mind regarding “quite beyond civilized discourse”?
You don’t see the connection between “feather bonnets are sacred to us, so people who don’t follow our rules wrt bonnets are bad people” and “Mahomet is sacred to us, so people who don’t follow our rules wrt him are bad people”?
Why shouldn’t I wear a feather bonnet exactly? Can you give me an answer that wouldn’t be equally applicable to tell me that I shouldn’t draw a picture of Mahomet? Because bonnets are sacred? True in both cases. Because it offends people? True in both cases. Because it’s not my culture? True in both cases. What else?
In both cases, I can only see here “I have a right not to feel offended : nobody should take lightly what is important to me”.
Who exactly should be protected against “cultural appropriation”? Is dressing up as a “stereotypical American” acceptable? As a"stereotypical Japanese"? Stereotypical French? British? Brazilian? Mexican? Scottish bagpiper? Texan cowboy? Venetian gondolier? Tyrolian singer? As a stereotypical mafiosi? Cop? Business executive? Plumber? Can I dress up as a woman, being a man?
Where does it stop? Is “typical Peruvian” handmade jewelry not to be worn because some of it uses motifs that are held as sacred by some people (and because I’m not Peruvian)? Can I wear an Alpaca poncho? Put a representation of an Incan god on my bookshelf? Can I serve a Peruvian-themed meal to friends? Decorate the room with more or less Peruvian-looking stuff at this occasion? Put on Andine music? What about having a Chinese meal and eat it with chopsticks? Can I decide to celebrate the Chinese New year? Saint Patrick’s day?
What about ads? Are ads showing a stereotypical Italian to sell coffee, a stereotypical French to sell food, a stereotypical German to sell cars, along with the appropriate fake accent off-limit? What about movies using local stereotypes? What about humorists? Should they avoid impersonating someone from a group they don’t belong to? Not a Jew if they aren’t Jewish, not a redneck if they aren’t from a rural area, not a foreigner if they aren’t foreigners, not a New-Yorker if they aren’t New-Yorkers, etc…?
How about turning it around: do you believe that you have a right to take lightly anything of importance to anyone; to knowingly offend; to belittle the culture, identity, experiences of others, for no reason better than that it amuses you, or something?
If not, then the questions are just how to tell and where to draw the lines.
What if you’re playing the Legend of the Five Rings role-playing game, where your character is from a fantasy version of feudal Japan? Does it matter what the nationality or ancestry of the players are? What if you are of Japanese ancestry, but your ancestors were burakumin, and you’re playing a samurai?
♫
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I’ve never been one of them. ♫
We all have that right. Now you might need to deal with the “consequences” like Charlie Hebdo.
Does a Japanese Elvis impersonator get a pass if we decide Elvis appropriated?