Cuomo might be in some trouble [Gov has resigned][Brother Chris fired by CNN]

See, this is where you’re just wrong. Utterly, totally wrong. The Dems in NYS aren’t going after him for his COVID/nursing home history, it’s for the other stuff – lying, bullying, sexual harassment.

I’m sure he made some mistakes early on in the COVID crisis. Every leader did, and many governors didn’t learn from those mistakes and repeated them (see Texas), which is even worse, and of course, the Federal response was a disaster. None of that is relevant to this thread.

I would really appreciate if you would take your COVID/nursing home talking point elsewhere – it’s not relevant to this thread, since that’s not what he’s in trouble for. Thanks in advance.

Eh, the current situation seems like one of those perfect storms where there’s been a critical mass of scandals with Cuomo, and we’re seeing how people really feel about him now that they’re not afraid of him. It seems like some state Democrats are hitting him for both scandals:

Yes, both scandals – lying about the COVID deaths and sexual harassment. “We need trust and transparency from our leadership…” is about the lying.

Yes, I think the Army/Navy medical and engineering groups who are trained for medical relief can do exactly that. We saw this with medical units sent to NY, medical facilities assembled, and medical ships.

> ‘Betrayal’: New York Democrats Slam Cuomo For Underreporting Nursing Home Covid Deaths

They’re calling for removal of emergency powers from the Governor . Are you seriously suggesting that lying about deaths is somehow divorced from the actual deaths?

The medical ship that wouldn’t accept patients with COVID, or any of 49 other medical conditions (which may have included conditions common among nursing home residents, like dementia, for all I know)? The one with staff trained to treat “young, otherwise healthy soldiers suffering from injuries related to gunshots and bomb blasts”? That one? (See my cite above).

Apparently you believe that he could have somehow caused the federal government (a federal government headed by a man who was at that time pretty much either denying the existence of COVID or claiming that it would go away all by itself) to build and staff temporary nursing homes?

And the charge that his (quite limited in scope and duration) directive caused a massive number of deaths in nursing homes was debunked pretty well by slash2k in post 18 above.

Please. You’re beating a dead horse here. Nobody in this thread is defending Andrew Cuomo. He’s a bad guy. Everyone agrees. That doesn’t mean we should pile on debunked and false charges.

Deaths from Cuomo’s nursing home policy is absolutely relevant when he lied to cover it up. If it wasn’t a problem there would be no need for the lie.

So thanks for your suggestion the hidden deaths aren’t relevant to the lie.

The medical ship that was modified by request to accept COVID patients 5 days later. Per the Mayor of NY it was expected to be filled up. They didn’t utilize an asset that was sent to them by request. cite.

That is EXACTLY what I’m saying, yes. Governor Murphy in NJ had more deaths per capita and is not under fire for that. And, that’s the last time I will post on this particular hijack, because it’s off-topic for this thread.

This is not a thread about Governor Murphy. It’s a thread about Cuomo. I seriously don’'t understand why you’re bringing up Murphy or what that possibly has to do with your position that lying about nursing home deaths is divorced from the actual deaths.

Of course was no need for a lie. He was wrong to lie. I’m not sure that there’s anyone in state government who can make Cuomo resign, but if he were a decent person, he’d do it, because of his lie, and because of the (credible, so far, and let’s see what the investigation commencing now brings up) allegations of a number of women about creepy and/or harassing behavior.

But here’s why he lied:

The Fox News types viewed Cuomo (wrongly, in my opinion, but that’s another thread) as a possible presidential contender in 2024.

Thus, he had to be torn down, starting years in advance. So they fastened on nursing home deaths as the rope with which to hang him. In typical Fox New (and fellow traveler) style, details were irrelevant. That other states had similar death rates in care facilities didn’t matter. That there really wasn’t any alternative to discharging nursing home residents from hospital back to their residences didn’t matter. What mattered is that they could put “(D)” next to Cuomo’s name on the screen

So whatever Kristi Noem, or Greg Abbot, or Ron DeSantis, did or didn’t do in their states is good, no matter what the death toll. Because they are Republicans. And whatever Cuomo did or didn’t do is bad, simply because he’s a Democrat.

That’s all there is to it.

And the ridiculous thing about all this is that it wasn’t necessary. Cuomo provided the rope with which to hang himself. His presidential ambitions (which were, to my mind, perhaps less delusional than Bill de Blasio’s, but on a par with those of George Pataki) are ashes now. It’s over.

Now I won’t say another word on this topic. I’m done with it. If that means you get the last word, so be it. But having the last word doesn’t make you right.

OK, one more reply, then I’m really done. I thought it would be obvious.

Cuomo is in trouble (in part) for lying about the number of nursing home deaths. He’s not actually in trouble for the total number of deaths, since it was the early days of the pandemic and no one knew what to do. Your (several times disproven) theory about what he could have done is not behind the calls for his resignation or calls to strip him of his power.

He’s also in trouble for bullying other elected officials, and, of course, for the sexual harassment charges.

Since he’s not in trouble for how he handled the nursing home patients, or the total number of deaths, those are irrelevant to this thread.

You asked about whether lying about the deaths is divorced from the actual deaths. I responded “yes”, since, for example, Murphy presided over more deaths per capita and is not in trouble. Cuomo could have had far fewer nursing home-related deaths and still been in trouble if he had lied about those.

I’ll ask one more time to please, please drop this irrelevant hijack.

I’m not sure why you’re taking this personally. It’s just a discussion. We could be drinking beer at a bar right now and walk away satisfied we had a dialogue. It doesn’t mean there’s a winner or loser in the process. I’ve had many a discussion with liberals and none of them felt butt-hurt about it.

I disagree with your premise that in the early days nobody knew what to do. We knew, before the first case was detected in the US, that China was locking things down because of how fast it spread and that it was killing the elderly. I don’ think it was rocket surgery to focus on keeping the elderly isolated. We had a huge discussion about transporting people from hospitals and the short of it was people on this board weren’t aware of the various systems and levels of medical transport we have in the US. Even if you were in doubt you could go to flight aware and watch the process in action. It was quite common to see clusters of 6 or more helicopters in a very small area and you could track each one from origin to destination.

Personally, I think Cumo’s actions are being downplayed because other states probably mirrored their response after NY and it’s going to get ugly if Cumo’s actions different from advise from experts in the field. I’m not saying he did but it doesn’t seem logical to return covid patients to nursing homes when we knew they would be the most vulnerable.

That’s my opinion. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with it and you’re free to argue against it.
As for Kristi Noem, or Greg Abbot, or Ron DeSantis, they have all had their turn in the barrel along with other Governors and may very well have to account for their actions.

Because I want this thread to be about why Cuomo might actually be in trouble, not why he’s in trouble in Fox News fantasyland. If you want to discuss his handling of nursing home cases, I’m asking you to do that in a different thread. Feel free to add it to the Stupid Liberals thread, or start a new thread in P&E, GD, or IMHO to discuss that very issue.

I’m not a moderator, so I can’t tell you what to post here, I can only ask, and ask, and ask again.

Cuomo is NOT in trouble with fellow Democrats for his order to return people to nursing homes. This thread is why he IS in trouble, and so far, that’s 6 or so credible allegations of sexual harassment, maybe assault, plus his bullying of that state senator, plus his lying about the number of COVID deaths.

On the topic of this thread, the NYS AG has released the names of the independent investigators. I’ll try and track that down.

ETA: Looks like she has named Joon Kim (former US Attorney) and Anne Clark (lots of experience in sexual assault cases) to run the investigation. James names 2 to probe harassment allegations against Gov. Cuomo, including ex-U.S. attorney | Newsday

? I’m not seeing RitterSport “taking this personally”: I’m seeing him making a valid distinction between Cuomo’s original policy decision in the early chaos of the pandemic in NY and Cuomo’s lying about the outcome of that decision.

Yes, at least from my own upstate NY vantage point, Cuomo is getting a lot more criticism for his lying and other shitty behavior than for his original policy choice. A lot of people in the state are still kind of grateful to Cuomo for stepping up to handle what was an absolute horror show of a public crisis: giving his daily briefings, laying out what to expect in terms of closures and lockdowns, etc. People are willing to cut him some slack about imperfect policy choices in the heart of the shitstorm.

But the fact that he wasn’t telling the truth about the outcome, and at a time when a lot of New Yorkers were desperately hanging on his words for guidance and leadership that they weren’t getting from the federal government in this disaster, comes across as a real betrayal, and he’s not going to be forgiven for that. (Or for the other asshole behavior attributed to him.) Gratitude has limits.

There’s nothing fantasy oriented about his decision. I don’t see how you can separate it from the lie. It’s the reason behind the lie.

Since you created the thread and wish to define it post entry I’ll try to work around it but I want to go on record and suggest that there are political reasons to downplay his decisions because it could affect anyone who followed suit.

But the reality is that most people are criticizing Cuomo for (a) the cover-up/undercounting concerning the nursing home deaths, and (b) the sexual harassment and other bad-behavior scandals. Not for the original nursing-home patient admission decision.

You may say that the original decision and the lie can’t be separated, but that’s exactly what Cuomo’s critics are doing. Here are a few typical examples criticizing the lie, and the other bad behavior, but not his original decision about nursing homes admitting patients.

“Multiple and growing credible allegations of sexual harassment and recent reports detailing the cover-up of the true COVID-19 death toll in nursing homes are extremely disturbing”

After a year of national praise for his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, Governor Andrew Cuomo now faces growing calls for him to leave office after allegations ranging from berating phone calls to sexual harassment in the workplace, as well as an apparent cover-up of nursing-home deaths.

The two top Democrats in New York’s legislature withdrew their support for Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Sunday amid mounting allegations of sexual harassment and undercounting COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes.

I think a far simpler and more straightforward explanation is simply that that particular crisis handling decision qualifies as an honest mistake, while sexually harassing and bullying people and lying about the numbers are not honest mistakes. So naturally, responsible criticism of Cuomo is going to focus on the unambiguously unethical things rather than the judgement call.

His handling of the nursing homes will come out in the wash.

In the mean time we’re up to 6 accusers.

Yup, it was right up there in my post.

Of course it is. That happens all the time. Do you know why Martha Stewart went to prison? For lying to investigators when there were allegations of insider trading. It turned out that she wasn’t found guilty of what she was being investigated for, but it didn’t matter; by lying and interfering in the investigation she committed a crime.

It’s the same way here. Cuomo may have done everything he could to protect the elderly, may have done as well as anyone could in his position and with the lack of information available at the time and lack of preparedness. But if he covered up the numbers that alone is enough to get him in trouble.

It’s a common mistake where a person who hasn’t really done anything wrong gets scared and covers up what they did because they are worried about getting in trouble, and that ironically is what gets them in trouble. It’s like when you’re a kid and you break your mom’s favorite flower vase as a pure accident. If you were to admit it and apologize, no punishment is forthcoming. But if you try to hide it and lie about knowing where the missing vase went, when the truth is uncovered you’re punished for that deception.

It doesn’t matter if Cuomo needed to lie about the numbers. It matters if he did.