Bull and shit. Since when can a cop demand to search my house without a warrant?
Sorry for the double post, but this wasn’t there the last time I posted.
What does being a member of Congress have to do with it? It might be unusual, but it still is different than what the guy in Gulfport did.
You are correct. I withdraw the word nonsense. I do, however, still disagree with your characterization of the incident as Marble shouting down the Vice-President.
It was unprofessional of him, is what I meant. Completely undignified and uncalled for for a man in his position.
Imagine if Clinton had told Newt to go fuck himself back in the day. We’d never hear the end of it.
(Of course, I also thought it was funny, but that’s just the juvenile potty-humorist in me).
Since if you try to stop him you would most likely be arrested for assault on a public servant and hindering an investigation. They cannot demand you give them permission and waive your 4th Amendment rights but that means nothing until you get in front of a judge or you file a formal complaint. IANAL but I think there are circumstances where they can search private property without a warrant. Like pursuing a suspect, inventory once property is seized and such.
I hope the guy pursues a Section 1983 lawsuit against those MPs and any higher-ups who may have sent them to his house.
These are very limited circumstances. I can indeed stop a police officer from searching my house without a warrant. I simply do not allow him to enter. If he does anyway, the city might as well start writing the check.
If he “does anyway” you haven’t exactly stopped, him have you? I never meant to imply that an officer has a right to enter without a warrant. I meant that you do not have a right to stop him. As opposed to you having a right to stop me from coming in when I want.
Another difference: The good doctor was speaking as a private citizen having just gone through a trauma. Cheney was speaking as the freaking Vice President of the United Freaking States, in the Senate chambers, to a colleague.
Somehow Cheney’s gaffe wins.
Daniel
Um, yes, I do have a right to stop him. I simply stand in the doorway and say, “No, not without a warrant. Goodbye.” Then I close the door in his face.
If he tries to arrest me, then I’ve got a false arrest suit brewing.
Um ok, im glad it’s so simple for you. Good luck if you are ever put into that situation. :rolleyes:
The good Dr. Marble was exercising his First Amendment right to free speech. Furthermore, since he was expressing his opinon of the Vice President’s performance and actions, it was political speech. And since he was using the Vice President’s words against him, he was engaging in pardoy. Dr. Marble had every right to do what he did and I think he is a patriot along the lines of Patrick Henry, the original American rhetorical bomb-thrower. There may be hope for this country yet.
You may have the right to stop him, but it would be a bad idea. I think the point AFAIKnow is making is that, once you’ve asserted that you do not grant permission for the search, if the police officer is determined to go ahead with it anyway, don’t try to stop him. You’ll only get yourself hurt. Let him perform the search, and then get everything thrown out at trial because he didn’t have permission or a warrant. Trying to physically prevent an armed police officer who is already determined to ignore the law is only going to get your ass stomped on. You might still win a lawsuit for assault, sure, but most of that’ll probably have to go towards buying yourself a new set of kneecaps.
I didn’t realize it was a contest. The OP is suggesting that this is turnabout, and whether that is fair. Maybe. But the circumstances are quite different. Seems to me it’s apples and oranges.
What exactly happened in the Senate that motivated Cheney to say that? What was the criticism that Leahy made? I thought Cheney would have more self-control.
Hey, now you know! 
I think it’s not quite a turnabout, but it’s a fair act. Cheney was immensely rude to a senator while acting as a representative of the People. He then inadvertantly inconvenienced a member of the People, and that member took an opportunity both to vent his frustration on Cheney (for immediate wrongs and for the wrongs he’s committed for the past five years) and to offer a clever criticism of Cheney’s own rudeness.
In this thread, someone suggests getting revenge on a horrible boss by quoting his exact words back to him at an opportune moment. It’s a time-honored form of revenge, and that’s what the good doctor was doing.
Daniel
Dude, do you have the remotest understanding of the purpose behind the 4th Amendment?
Dude, do you understand that the police are trained to position themselves in doorways so you can’t slam it on them once opened? Do you understand that if you assault a public servant, that it is a felony?
I don’t condone it. I hate it. I wondered what in the hell I could do about it. You tell me to read the Fourth. :rolleyes:
Actually, I have been in that situation, and my experience illustrates just why you don’t want to waive this right. The police were investigating a relative of mine, and via a search warrant raided his mother’s home. He was not a resident of this home and the mother was not named on the warrant. No one was home, so they broke a window to enter, trashed the place and stole money and valuables. I was informed that they were headed to his father’s house next and I intercepted them there. They did not have a warrant for this second search, but wanted to enter anyway. I asserted our 4th admendment rights on behalf of the father who was not home, refused entry and demanded they get a warrant. The a-hole detective tried to intimidate me by making up a bogus story claiming I was at that moment secretly taping our conversation, which he informed me was an arrestable offense, and that I should leave while pulling back his coat to reveal his gun (oh!, the cliche!). At which point I started yelling stuff about Nazis invading; thereby drawing out the neighbors and gaining me some witnesses to the crap that was going down. He finally relented and had one of his buddies get the warrant. They did the search under my supervision (which I openly videotaped), left the house intact and carrried out only the items listed in the warrant.
Now, I have good relations with the officers I work with, so I know that not all cops are fascist pigs. But it’s the bad apples like I dealt with in the incidents above that are the reason why the rights found in the 4th admendment exist and why they’re worth standing up for.
Re: 4th amendment and police searching a home without a warrant. IANAL, but it is my understanding that the police may enter and, if necessary search a private residence if they have probable cause to believe a felony is in progress, e.g., they see a large amount of cash, drugs and weapons on the coffee table through the open door or if they hear gunshots or screams for help from within the home. However, legally, they are not allowed to enter without permission or a warrant if they witness a misdemeanor offense like smelling marijuana or seeing an underage person with alchohol. Further, they cannot obtain a warrant for a misdemeanor as said misdemeanor is not a priori evidence of a felony. Again, IANAL.
I do think it’s a really bad idea to try to prevent a heavily armed person from entering your home if that’s their intention. If that ever happens, just hope for credible witnesses to back up your side of the story.