My co-worker, Rob, and I had lunch today. The Department Head annoucement that he was leaving to take a job in Canada was the main topic. Rob was of the opinion that DH was naive enough to believe that everything would be the same after he left. We know better. After much discussion, we decided that most of the post-docs would do OK and find positions in other labs. The research assistants would find jobs with other researchers, maybe a few would break into industry. The undergraduate student workers could find jobs, they’re cheap labor and the univeristy subsisdized their pay. He and I, though, were fucked.
Rob is in a worse position than I. He’s from Australia and if he loses his job, he will have 28 days to leave the country. A little less than a month to pack up his things, travel across the globe and land back home without a job or unemployment benefits. I am really worried for him.
Rob and I get along because we are in the same boat: researchers without bachelor’s degrees. We’re both animal people and we have done well in the medical field because we have strong backs and even stronger stomachs. Rob has been at this much longer than I have. He’s the closest I have had to a mentor. When he decides to go home (or is sent back) I will miss him.
Getting a job without a degree is a pain. Mouse_Spouse is very supportive. He says that we will work out whatever happens; he also makes three times as much as I do. I’m sure that Mouse_Spouse would be OK with me going to school full time to get that damned piece of paper, but I feel akward. I have been on my own since I was 16, experience has taught me that everything comes with a price. Let the spouse pay the bills while I go to school freaks me out. It makes me feel vulnerable.
I’m down because this time last year, a friend and fellow animal-person/uneducated researcher killed himself - a gunshot to the head in his car in the university parking lot. Today apolice officer was shot at the corner outside the same parking lot. A coincidence, but a chilling one.
I wish there was something I could say, but I know there isn’t. Losing a job you are good at really bites. I hope something wonderful comes through for you.
Mouse Maven, I know you don’t know me at all, but I’ve followed various threads that you’ve started. I feel I know you a bit, and I wish I could do something to help you. If I had a lab that could use your skills and drive, I’d hire you myself. Unfortunately, that’s not at all the position I’m in.
Are you and Mouse Spouse willing to move? If you’re aggressive about the job search, and you get DH and the guy you worked for before DH (the one who was pissed over intellectual property rights you had, IIRC) to be references, you might have a good chance at a new job in another academic lab.
If you go to another state school, you could probably get your credits from Colorado to transfer, so you won’t lose time on your degree.
Or maybe you could find part-time work through one of the scientific temp agencies and go to school for the rest of your time. I know you say you’re nervous about Mouse Spouse covering your expenses while you study, but this could really be an investment for both of you. After you graduate, your earning potential and job opportunities will go way up.
Maybe I am being dumb, but might I ask, if the head of department is leaving, why does that necessarily mean that the whole department needs to close down? Can’t they just replace the DH?
Unless I’m more confused than I think I am (Or Mouse Maven’s college/field works differently than those I’m familiar with), the whole department isn’t going to be shut down. However, the DH had a lab of his own, so to speak, doing research for him. That lab will be separated into three not neccessarily even parts. The part which is truly and uniquely the DH’s will go with the DH. The part which is highly desirable or university subsidized will be distributed around the department. The part which no body wants–which is where Rob and Mouse Maven feel like they fit–which just becomes orphans.
I know more than one person who was a graduate student deeply involved in research at a university who had their advisor move before graduation. What happened next depended on how close to graduation the student was. Those who are really close, find a new major advisor and stay put–so they don’t have to retake classes, etc. Those who are really far away from graduation may find a new major advisor and start the research over, or try to follow the advisor. The ones who are really unlucky are those who are somewhere in the middle, too deeply invested to find a new major advisor in a new field, and not invested enough to make the university/department work hard to find them an option which lets them keep their research topic and graduate on schedule.
Sorry to hear about your situation Mouse . It sucks when changes in a department affect everyone one. Want some of my work? I work 60-80hrs a week right now and am getting tired of it. It wouldn’t be so bad if I wasn’t salaried, therefore only paid for 40hrs…
I hope all works out well for you. I know what you mean about how hard it is to get a job in research. I have a BS and it still a pain to get in somewhere… I am lucky that my current job has sent me to additional training increasing my knowledge and value… Now if I can just convinced em to pay me what I am worth…
Our department head has his own research team that works very closely with my boss. (For the record, my work group is me, Rob the Aussie, and the boss. Boss doesn’t have a lot of time for the lab because he’s a pediatric heart surgeon as well as a researcher. DH helps us out since the lab time/hospital schedule keeps boss from getting research done.) A couple of DH’s research team will go to Canada with him. Other members will find jobs or mentors in other labs because there is no guarantee that the new DH will want them - he/she will have their own people, different research goals, etc. Rob and I are valuable because we’re animal people. Not many researchers see this as something of worth. *Why pay an extra salary when we can have grad students/student workers manage the mouse colony? * We’re in a precarious position.
When I started this thread, it was after trying to explain all this to Mouse_Spouse. He works for Cisco Systems, I work for a university. The two very different cultures. I have been working in research for six ( :eek: ) years, part of my idenity is bound to what I do. Losing my job is like losing apart of myself. Also, I’m so specialized, that finding another job is not so easy.
The spouse and I cannot move. I’m about 12 credit hours from getting that damned BS and Spouse is doing well at work. We also have family and friends here.
12 credit hours? I know it sucks, but why don’t you go full-time and have Mouse_Spouse foot the bills for a semester, after all (you won’t need more than that if you go to full-time, will you?)
Or, if you feel you must hold your end, at least partially, maybe try to find some non-academic part-time job – doing whatever – that keeps some small amount of money coming in, and spread the hours over two semesters…
Or… maybe the DH’s move will be magically delyed for a few months… maybe the collective finger-crossing by all of us here will mean that the lab will stay in business just long enough for you to get that damned piece of paper! Here’s hoping [and typing with 6 fingers; fingers crossed on both hands]
I agree Mouse_Maven. It might make one feel vulnerable (I’m in somewhat a similar situation) but it gets the work done quick. I have almost a year left before I get my teaching certificate (possibly longer, but eh, only if I add a minor) and was forced out of a job because of a jerk manager talking to the business owner about my “lacking work ethic” (Can someone who has never worked more than 40 hours a week really say that about a guy going to school and working 60-80 hours?) anyways…
My girlfriend agreed that now that she is graduated and has a good job (she graduated last spring) that she would be able to handle bills and while I finished school, but this made me uncomfortable, so I started on campus tutoring. It’s not the best job, but it gives me 20 hours a week and I can schedule around all my classes. This was enough to make me feel I still contributed. So far, 2 weeks into fall quarter, it has worked out well. I have time for school and have even joined several groups on campus now that I can attend meetings. I’m not saying it works for everyone, but it seems like an option worth considering…
(also, you don’t know me, but I am another Mouse_Maven thread stalker…)
I’ve been in your position before. I hope things improve!!
**Noone Special ** and brendon_small, you both have a very good point. I’ll turn 30 in February and becoming a full-time student is very intimadating. I’m not a Stepford Student (young, blonde, beautiful). I have this fear of not finding a job after I get a BS. (Years of therapy and I still can’t shake my anti-intellectualism. Father has a Phd. Mother has 3 master degrees. Both chronically unemployed. Ex-spouse had a BS and couldn’t get a job. The sensible part of me knows that I’m not as picky as they were. I’ll do anything -within reason - to pay the bills. But I have this deep fear of BS=no job.)
Just a couple things to mention as well (the person I tutor is late, I have a little time to post) turning 30 with a BS isn’t so bad. At least it’s not a BA seriously, some of the best students I’ve worked with (say, because they hadn’t done algebra in so long and needed tutored in math to pass and graduate) were even over 45. Another thing, being a student in class, I’m only 20, and I love it when I’m in class with older, more experienced people (read:anyone over 25). They contribute a whole lot more, and usually have some idea of what it’s like in the real world, not just some random theory about it from someone who just graduated high school. Another thing I’ve learned in college is that the Stepford Students must be ignored. Both my gf and I were people who were picked on in high school and lower grades. I can’t claim this for her experience, but it’s different for me now. I still get picked on some in college, and I despise the Stepfords, but I notice when there are two or three in a class with me, chances are they won’t make it until midterm. This is wonderful because the serious students are left and the others are gone (not that all Stepford students are not serious, just in my experience). Of course, this is also a lot easier on me because I am in a small program (English Ed 7-12 - my college graduates about 1-2 a year in it) and I’m in upper level classes now, so the gen-eds are out of the way and it’s mostly people with similar majors.
Shayla (my gf) graduated a year ago and ran into a million problems with jobs. She has a BA in Sociology and (just monday) started on her MA in Criminology with hopes of a PhD in Forensic Psychology. The problem in our town, most jobs go to people with low qualifications, becuase they will stay in town and hold the job. The other problem was she had a good job in an office on campus when she was a student, but other than that she had two jobs in her whole life (lifeguarding and pizza-cook). She had no experience in a social work field, and not being a LSW, she was out of luck a lot. She was overqualified with a BA in most areas here, and ended up working as a receptionist for months before she got a “real job”. One did come up, and it turned out to be better than she had imagined (along with great pay/benefits, they gave her a food allowance at work, great health benefits, and a lot of freedom with her work*). Once she was hired there, she moved up quickly. Hopefully, by the time she finishes her masters, she will be a case manager.
Now this is only something I’ve heard, but in my experience true, after graduation it takes about 4-6 months to find a job. Of course, for most, those months are incredibly hard, but since you have experience and (would have) a degree, it should make a ton of difference. Also, if you aren’t picky, it’s even better! Of course, I wish you the best of luck. School is tough, but remember, it’s certainly possible to obtain the BS. Good Luck!
I’m surprized to hear that you value the input of older students. The classes I take tend to be on the large side (50+ students), so interacting with other students is rare. We’re all there to hear the lecture and move on.
Ah, I can wax poetic about Stepford Students! At this University, they tend to stay in class and want to go to med school. Some of them end up with me in the lab were they get the infamous mouse instruction.
Stepford Student: I don’t want to touch a mouse. They’re gross! I want to help people.
MM: Listen, you learn from those that can’t sue your ass for a mistake and then move up to those who can!
(I know that these students look so nice and get on my nerves because there is a decade difference in age and huge gap in experience and maturity. But there are days when I feel paleolithic.)
Ahhh, the good ol’ days of injecting a little white fuzzy mouse with botulism toxin, only to watch it die a painful death… Just to prove it really was C.bot in the first place… I know some PEOPLE I would like to do the same too…
Well, first off, sorry about double quoting you. It was accidental, but campus computers are not the greatest for posting from. The situation might be different for me (as far as Stepfords and older students) as I am at a small state school that used to be a community college in the early 80s. We’re small, so after the sophomore year there are not many classes larger than 20 people, and senior level classes are usually < 10. I am so thankful for this. I will say that our junior ethics requirement is different - there are about 50-60 in it starting off - but after a few weeks there is usually less than 40. It seems to hold true every year.
Also, we have a lot of returning students who stopped going to college for some reason (usually financial) and want to come back and finish. One of the best students I know, I’ve had many classes with him the past year, is a 35 year old school bus driver who is coming back to get a teaching certificate. Since he has worked as a bus driver for years, he is used to helping the students with day-to-day problems and other things like that, so he has a really unique perspective that is a lot different than someone in the class who came straight from high school.
I am glad I don’t have many Stepfords to worry about in most of my classes. I’m so sorry that anyone would have to put up with that…
Sound like you have a very nice school, even if the computers are a little quirky.
I attend a branch campus of a university with a “party school” reputation, so the environment is different. When I started taking classes here (five years ago :eek: ), the University presented itself as a school for working adults. Over the years, their emphasis has changed, and it seems that they are more interested in traditional students. (Two years ago, the U bought a defunct hotel and turned it into student housing.) I have complianed in other threads that I feel lost in the academic system. A non-traditional biology undergraduate student with no med school aspirations is a very rare - I’m the only one so far. Hell, non-traditional students with thoughts of med school are become rarer.
My impression used to be based on U of Miami, so of course it’s another one of those schools that’s considered “very good” by many people because the football team is good :smack: as if computer science or law had anything to do with running around after a ball. But later in Philly I also kept getting people who asked me why didn’t I go to medical school, being a chemist and all… sweet baby Jesus between an ox and a mule, I almost had to self-finance my studies because I absolutely refused to go into any kind of medical branch like my parents wanted!
Getting that from undergrad premeds who “want to be doctors to make loads of money” is one thing. But getting it from coworkers at a medical firm? TAER!
Yep. If the major is chemistry or biology, you must want to be a doctor. :rolleyes: Maybe a veterinarian, but that’s not as important as being a MD.
Geez. I’m sorry you had to suffer through that as well. {{{Hugs}}}
(Actually, I thought about moving on to veterinary training, but gave that up. I’m very tired of academics and not getting any younger.)
As for the co-workers, they learn very quickly that I’m not a woman to piss off. I manage the mouse colonies, I keep the animal care and vet staff happy, I order all the lab supplies and know how to navigate the University bureaucracy. Get on my bad side and I’ll let you find your own way through this jungle.
I’ve heard of party schools, there is one nearby. It was ranked by playboy at one point as one of the top 5 in the country (or top ten, I forget). Of course, this is because of their massive Halloween gathering, and of course, I’m refferring to OU-Athens. A friend of mine is a bio major there, and she doesn’t exactly have med school dreams, but pretty much the only subject she enjoys is bio, so she picked it for her major. The good news is if you have such a short time left to be in school, maybe you could get done in 3 quarters (or equal semesters - ugh, we’re changing over next fall so I get half a year of em at least) that way you would have your BS.
Is there any way possible that Rob become a full-time student that he could get a student visa to stay here? That way he could stay in Colorado and look for another research postion and get a degree at the same time? or am I full of wishful thinking?\