Last night, whilst having dinner with my (American) wife, I noticed that she was eating just like me. That is, “European style”, using the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right hand. She has mastered this technique in only a few months after moving here. Good for her, now only her slight accent makes her distinguishable from the regular Cloggies.
But then we explored the topic a little further. Where did this American tradition (everything with the right hand, unless you’re cutting something) start? I wondered why, when most of the immigrants moving to the New World were of European descent, did they not just have the same eating habbits?
Of course, I searched the message boards and the columns archives. The most useful thread I came up with is this: On forks, knives, and the American way
It poses a lot of very interesting theories, some of them no doubt based in truth, at least partially so. The late introduction of the fork in the New World seems to make the most sense to me, but then again, plenty of Googleable cites contradict that version as well.
Can this really be such a difficult question to answer? My gut feeling is that something that happened THIS recent has to have a very logical explanation - not four or five plausible ones.
So, I call on my fellow Dopers to help me out, and settle this mystery once and for all. Why did Americans develop a different cutlery etiquette from Europeans?
Coldfire–I am in the middle of a massive investigation of silverware in Britain and the US. I have not yet gotten around to cutlery etiquette, but I do have an essay on the different pieces and their uses, which I’d be happy to send your way, if you want it.
Why did Americans develop a different cutlery etiquette from Europeans?
We didn’t. You did. As you say, this has been discussed extensively over the last 2-3 years. I doubt you’ll get better answers.
The prevailing view suggests the so-called American style (which is hardly universal, especially in the larger East Coast cities) predates the modified Euro style, the latter focusing more on efficiency, on discarding what some saw as ackward formality. It’s perhaps ironic then that, in certain circles within the US, the Euro style is seen as more refined.
Generally in the US, Euro style prevails on the upper East Coast, among the prep/private school set, and among those of a higher SES. I see it a lot in Manhattan, which is endearing, perhaps, but I also see lots of Manhattanites slumping over their food and using their Euro-style technique to shovel massive loads of food into their mouths.
BTW, do you notice two distinct styles of Euro cutlery etiquette? Some employ their knives much more as a shoveling tool and/or as an instrument to precisely place food on their fork. Lots of knife work over there. (No disrespect intended. Couldn’t think of a better term.) As a side thought, I think the Euro style is much more instinctual and has more appeal to kids.
BTW… I had a friend who described himself as a “colonial brat,” born and raised in Singapore (to European parents) then sent to Britain for boarding school. He ate with a spoon and a fork, manipulating food onto the spoon with the fork. Also, one of my grandfathers would eat “overhand” rather than underhand, which just looked awkward. His parents were Dutch immigrants–dunno if they taught him that, or if he invented it himself.
That’s certainly my experience, mostly in the South-West of the US, where several people commented on how my dining habbits looked “so much better than theirs”. Note, this is not my personal opinion - their words. I don’t think one’s better than the other, just more curious looking. Depends on what you’re used to I guess.
Well, they are Americans before anything else.
ducks to evade flying tomatoes
Hey, don’t set them up so easily.
Two distinct styles? Hmmm, perhaps. Did you observe these things in different countries in Europe? I definitely use my knife for cutting as well as shoveling, that’s for sure.
What exactly do you mean by overhand? Holding the fork upside down?
If that’s what you mean, then yes, that could definitely be a Dutch thing. Albeit frowned upon! I used to get chastised if I ate that way as a kid. It’s considered to be “the way farmers eat”. So, not very high class, in other words.
Yes, it’s not universal to all regions of America. I’ve never eaten like that, I hold my fork in my left hand and my knife in my right, unless I’m only holding a fork (in the case of dishes that don’t require a knife). In fact, that’s what was taught in “life” class in Junior High–although I suspect most people already knew how to eat by then. Changing hands just seems awkward.
My mother, on the other hand, was born in the south and does eat in the “American” fashion. Another difference I’ve noticed is, whereas I’ll stab the item in question with the fork, then lift it to my mouth concave-down, she treats the fork more as a spoon and sort of scoops up the food and drops it in her mouth concave-up, requiring her elbow to be lifted abnormally high. I don’t know if she was taught that, I never thought to ask.
But I was under the impression that the European way was the reverse of that: knife in the left hand, fork in the right. I thought the way I (and everyone else here) do it was considered the British way. Is that not true or is another case of “not universally”?
Uh-oh. Now we have to figure out what “upside down” means. And I was just recovering from the soup spoon question last week…
By “overhand” I mean he would hold the fork in his left hand, but eat with the tines pointing up.
My impression is that if one is going to eat with the fork in the left hand, it’s polite to eat with the tines pointing down. This is the minimal-manipulation way of doing things… one uses the fork to hold down what one is cutting, then lifts the cut piece straight to the mouth.
Am I wrong? I am American, I eat with the fork in my right hand…
In my part of the world we do the fork-left, knife-right thing, but and I think it would be surprisingly difficult to change a lifetime of muscle memory to swap over - so good on your wife Coldie for managing it. I’d be eating like a very small child if I tried that. It’d be freakier than changing gear in a country where they drive on the other side of the road.
Anyway, I’m more interested in this underhand/overhand business. I know that the concave side down is the “proper” way, but I wonder how the people who say this eat their peas! I prefer concave side down, but I certainly won’t hesitate to flip my fork over to eat peas, mashed vegetables, etc. I’m also into the “lots of knifework” thing when I do this, and the fork will sit still convex side resting on the plate, while the knife loads stuff onto it. For everything else though, it’s cut with the knife, then stab with the fork, tines down.
I myself would always instinctively eat “euro style”, which I took for being innately high-brow when I found where it’s “normally” prevalent in the US.
Ah, overhand is tines pointing UP! In other words, using the fork as a scooping device (for peas, e.g.). Well, yes, then the observed habbit may have been Dutch-influenced, yet NOT lower class. I misunderstood.
I use the fork for both purposes. To hold the meat down for cutting, but also to scoop up all sorts of food. Obviously, when you scoop, the tines point up. But like I said earlier, when I was brought up I was told to eat “overhand” even when bringing a piece of meat to my mouth. “Underhand” was considered impolite. Strangely enough, I never really thought of the inefficiency of that rule until now. I always flip over my fork now. Without thinking.
TLD: I don’t know how much LHD-driving you’ve done, but from my personal experience, I found it surprisingly easy to switch to an RHD-car (South Africa, Scotland). Ten minute into it, and it’s almost automatic to shift with your “unnatural hand”. Only in emergency reactions you’ll find yourself reaching for the door handle all of a sudden. Good thing the brake pedal’s in the same place no matter where the steering wheel is.
I’m not sure what this has to do wtih anything, but I’ll try anyway.
I’m American, left hand fork, right hand knife. I’m not sure exactly why that is, but a couple of factors might come into play:
I’m considered a “lefty” because I write with my left hand. However, when it comes to most other things, notably sports, which I suck at, BTW, and this might be a reason why, I’m much the “righty”.
I’m not at all sure whether this is an inherent left-right thing or the fact that since the fork is on my left and the knife is on my right, it just seemed logical to pick up the utensils with the hand closest to them.
Using my right hand for the fork is as unnatural as writing with my right hand would be. It just seems so awkward to me.
Again, I’m not sure what this has to do with anything, but perhaps some of you smart folk can make sense of it
To add to Merhouse’s observation: I’m strongly left–handed. A traditional place setting puts the fork right where I want it. And the knife’s right there for my right hand to pick it up when needed. The fork never leaves my left hand; I learned to cut with my right at the dinner plate (however, when using a knife alone, say slicing bread, I use my left hand). I don’t know how old I was when I first noticed that right-handers (I’m in America) would switch the fork from hand to hand depending upon whether they were cutting or eating, but I thought it was the stupidest waste of motion I’d ever seen.
Don’t go looking for efficiency within the realm of etiquette. If you’re looking to reduce motion, abandon your cutlery altogether and eat Hawaiian style.
BTW, I’ve seen all too many people grasp their forks with right hand, as though they’re grasping a steering wheel. The proper “American way,” if such a thing exists, is to avoid using the knife for scooping or shoveling of any kind. It’s a cutting tool, not a shovel.
In short, the so-called American way is the more traditional approach and the Euro version a modification. There’s no factual answer as to which is better.
In my family, we always ate the American way until my dad noticed that one of his coleagues from nicaragua would eat like that, and he thought it was smart, so he started eating like that, and then I did too.
But here’s one difference I noticed from that and the way they do it in Europe. For cutting meat, I can do it fine, but for scooping its very, very hard for me. But I really do see the logic of using the knife to push the peas around, so I just put the knife in my left hand in the fork in my right when it comes time to do that!
I really can’t balance the food on my left hand like I can with my right. Its different when I have a piece of meat stuck on it, because that’s a lot easier, but i’ve got no hope with peas or salad.
But most Europeans do that too, that is using the left hand to eat food and push things with the knife. But then, my question is this… If you normally eat with the fork in the right hand when it requires no knife, do you switch it to your left hand when you need it? Or do you always eat with the knife and fork? I didn’t seem to think so, but… well…
But really, nobody made any comment about my tendency to keep my hand in my lap. I usually tried not to do it, but really it happened a lot. Oh well…
I’m reminded of a Dear Abby or Ann Landers column where someone (obviously American) wrote in berating the Europeans for their bizarre way of using tableware, going on about how clearly WRONG they were to do it that way. The tongue-in-cheek reply suggested she go after the Chinese, who’d been eating with those funny little sticks for centuries.
