As some may know, there are two major styles to using a fork: American style, where the fork goes tines down for cutting, and tines up for scooping into the mouth (and hands swap between phases); and European style, where the fork is tines down the whole time, with no swap. Despite the name, Euro style is common in the US (and in fact the only way I was taught, though being the sinister type I keep my fork in the right hand).
I have seen two other styles which I can only describe as bizarre. Coincidentally–I think–both styles were practiced by South Africans.
The first one rested his fork on the plate, tines up, and used his knife to slide/scoop food onto the knife. He piled the food quite high, but was careful to not exceed the outline of the fork, and regularly used the knife to “carve” the pile into a rectangular prism shape. Once satisfied, he would lift the food into his mouth as a unit.
The second was a vegan, and much of his food consisted of squishy foods like rice, couscous, peas, etc. He would rest his fork on the plate tines down, and then use his knife to scoop food onto the fork. Of course, due to the curve of the tines this was not very stable, so he used the flat of the knife to squish the food down into the tines so that it held. He usually managed to combine foods so that more loose material (like lettuce) was held in place by the squishier material.
Has anyone seen or heard of these utensil uses before? I tried asking them gently about it but neither seemed to think it was anything worth talking about. I couldn’t even tell if it was just a personal idiosyncrasy, something particular to their family, or common among the population where they grew up.
Being an American who has been living in Germany for the better part of a year, learning to eat with both my knife and fork in my hands simultaneously was one of my first attempts to blend in.
So now, back home I am a put the knife down switch hands with the fork (from left to right) eater (or mom will kill me). And over here I am a cut keep both utensils in hand and bring the food to my mouth with the fork in the left hand. Took a surprisingly short time for this to feel natural.
I see this quite a bit in the region of Germany that I am in. Especially with potatoes, squash, and vegetables. Also with spaetzle as you get down to the end and there are lots of little pieces and sauce. Haven’t paid enough attention when traveling around to note if this is just a regional habit.
I grew up eating Euro style–the American practice of switching hands looks weird and needlessly inefficient to me. However, I wasn’t taught that tines are always down the whole time. It depends on what you’re eating. It’s common, at least the way it’s done in my family who hail from Poland, to scoop potatoes and the like onto the fork with a knife when necessary. I mean, how do you eat mashed potatoes with the fork tines down? Same with eating peas and other vegetables than aren’t easily speared.
It sounds to me like that’s what you’re describing in your post, and it seems perfectly normal and logical to me. Do you scoop your potatoes onto the convex side of your fork or something?
I’m pretty sure that ‘proper’ knife+fork combined etiquette is all about loading the convex side of the tines - because the alternative (turning the tines up and scooping onto the concave side) means changing the grip and using the fork more like a shovel into the mouth.
Of course, it takes a great deal of practice to be able to use a fork in that way, but that’s sort of the point of etiquette anyway. My in-laws eat that way, and manage it even with peas or corn kernels. Don’t ask me how.
I do a little of each of all of the thus-far-described methods, personally.
I should add, I know I’ve seen people do this, and I will do it occasionally myself, but it’s needlessly unwieldy for small bits of vegetables (like peas and beans) where it makes more sense, to me, to use the concave side of the fork and to use the knife to scoop the veggies onto it.
It’s probably worth noting that the tines-down method is usually employed in conjunction with the habit of collecting a variety of different items in each mouthful, so the peas might be held in place with a bit of mashed potato and gravy - or something like that
I’m from the UK, and tines up for scooping seems pretty normal to me.
The difference I noticed when in the US is that we hold both utensils continually (fork left, knife right), but I’ve noticed Americans put the knife down and *swap hands *occasionally or something, though haven’t seen enough to discern the pattern there. I did make a mental note to check next time I was in the US, but didn’t want to seem creepy watching people eat. Maybe I should just ask!
I’m right handed, but cut my meat with my left. I don’t switch hands. Sometimes I eat using my left hand (for finger foods) and sometimes my right – but whatever I start with is what I stay with. I kind of go for whatever is closest. If I’m eating steak, I cut & eat with my left hand but my right hand picks up the water glass…and never while I’m eating. I hate that. People who gulp down food with water. If my potatoes are on the other side of the plate, then I use my right hand for that.
I also start one section and work my way around. I don’t take a bite of this and a bite of that.
I place my fork tines down but I don’t know what you mean but ‘tines up’ and eating, because how could I get food in my mouth effectively with tines down?
I guess I do that most of the time…except for mashed potatoes. That would feel awkward. Salad is ‘straight in’ but not ‘shoveling’. Steak is tines down.
I suppose I should say I was being approximate with my description–so yes, I’d think that tines up for scoopable foods is acceptable for both American and Euro styles.
What I’m more curious about are the practices of shaping the food on the fork (if I want some mashed potatoes, I just scoop–the knife is not involved at all), or even more curiously, piling food on the convex side and pressing it in place to stay put.
I guess the first method is common in Germany, from what Hbns said. I can’t tell yet about the second method–Magnetout, do you have a cite for the claim that the “proper” method is to load the convex side? I’ve simply never heard of it before, or witnessed it aside from a single individual.
On a Public Broadcasting show on etiquette recently, the interviewee was asked, “What do you do if by chance you put a piece of gristle in your mouth, or a small bone you didn’t see enters with a piece of chicken? Do you use your napkin and surreptitiously remove it and put it on your plate, or what?”
Her answer was that you go after it with the utensil you used to put it in there.
So I tried it the other night at a restaurant and purposely cut off a small piece of gristle from a steak and put it in my mouth.
Making sure that there was nothing else in there, I went after it with the fork, but couldn’t pin it down. I tried about three or four times, till my wife noticed and asked me what the hell I was doing?
I finally said fuck it and swallowed it down and then explained to D what I was trying to do.
My tines are never down. Why do people make it hard on themselves? When I hold a fork, my thumb is on the top side of the fork handle. I rotate my hand to use the fork to either hold something on the plate or to lift a bite to my mouth. There’s never any need to change the grip within the left hand or between hands.
filipinos eat with spoon and fork, no swapping. the fork back-stops food being scooped up by the spoon and also pierces morsels. canadians don’t like that method and punish filipino kids in school for eating that way.
That’s a pretty awesome experiment, Quasi. Do you use your moments of lucidity to do funny-looking stuff like that now? We should start sending you on more quests like this to get us some answers
I just find it easier to use the knife to help keep the food in place. With peas, beans, or small chopped up vegetables, if I would try to scoop, unless I’m being really careful, chances are I’m going to push vegetables off the plate and onto the table. Why make it difficult on myself when there’s a knife handy that I could use either as a backstop or (as I use it) as a way to push the food onto the fork?
Agree. I’m American, grew up in the USA. The hand switch (hold fork with left hand, cut with knife in right hand, switch fork to right hand to spear and eat cut piece) I only saw ever done by little kids (and of course, I did it too as a little kid).
Same with scooping. Eating steak with a fork is one thing. Eating mashed potatoes is completely another.
Just to get serious for a moment, while at a forum for Alzheimer’s Advocacy recently, and because a bit of Parkinson’s has now begun to show itself, I found myself choosing food which could be speared with the fork.
Because it isn’t a continuous tremor, I never know when it may appear, so I play it safe and avoid the soups, peas, etc. And god forbid if I were to have to hold my glass for the server to pour water or iced tea.
In other words, I compensate.
I try hard not to get myself into those kinds of situations at all, but even if I weren’t bat-shit crazy, I don’t see how anyone could enjoy their meal worrying about etiquette mistakes.
Just my opinion and I thought y’all might get a smile out of my “experiment” going after the gristle.
Oh, and I eat “European” and don’t lay my knife down.
