I see you are also ignorant of the meaning of ignorance
I hope the people in this thread ranting about how this girl is doing the most evil thing a person could do and posting pictures and statistics about how horrible herpes is realize that they are contributing to a MAJOR social stigma based on a very MINOR infection. I’m not going to say “oh it’s nothing” because it clearly is something that you wouldn’t want to have, but at the same time, it’s infuriating to hear people talk about getting herpes like it’s leprosy or something.
Posting medical photos of worst case scenario is another prime example, flood
Larry Mudd suggested earlier bringing it up and dealing with a few responses:
a. “Let’s leave it wrapped up then.”
b. “No worries, a little Zovirax is all the protection we need.”
c. “Aw, honey, I don’t care. It’s only genital blisters, I’ll take that chance to be closer to you.”
d. “I’m not that serious about you and the risk of contracting herpes is more than I’m willing to take for a bit of nookie with you. Later.”
But the thing is, because of arguments like this and people feeling the need to villify anyone who has it, there’s considerable risk, and even greater fear of a response more like “fucking gross you whore, that shit makes you blind and you have gross weeping sores all the time and you’re disgusting.” Maybe not in those words but that seems to be a prevelant attitude, and it’s wrong and unfair.
Nobody wants herpes. Herpes is no good. That we can all agree upon, but what people don’t realize is that by talking about it like it’s SUCH a big deal, it becomes a HUGE deal socially and emotionally for the people that have it, far beyond it’s actually medical effects.
I say she’s wrong for not talking to her partners about it, but I can’t blame her for one second, knowing how excessively harsh people frequently judge based on something like that.
Yeah, but would you WANT herpes if you didn’t already have it? I don’t have herpes, so I wouldn’t know the profound psychological impact that Ghanima is talking about, but I honestly know for a fact that I wouldn’t wanna know it firsthand. Just having an infection that many tote to be a big deal can have a big affect on the way you perceive your condition.
What strikes me as fascinating, however, is how you claim that the majority of the population has it, yet hardly anyone has come out and shared said experiences with herpes. If it was really that widespread, wouldn’t we have more people backing or arguing against the girl in the OP? Or maybe it’s embarrassment (in which case, you can see the effects). I’d go with the former, but wouldn’t rule out the latter either.
Oh yeah, and sorry for the link. It’s NSFW.
Look, jackass, try and actually READ the thread before you post. The HUGE deal here isn’t having herpes, it’s fucking around when you have it without telling your partner. Get it? Nobody is stigmatizing anyone here for having a virus, they’re stigmatizing people for being dishonest with someone in the middle of an intimate relationship.
Who feels the need to villify people because they simply have herpes? Hell, I had a long, satisfying relationship with a woman who had HSV-II. She was upfront about it and I liked her well enough that it was a minor concern. Because she was honest (and because we were both cautious and lucky) I don’t have herpes today. No harm, no foul.
I’m still on good terms with her – and why not?
On the other hand, if she’d hid her hsv+ status from me, had unprotected sex, and I contracted herpes, well then I probably wouldn’t think of her so fondly. Anybody who would do such a thing should be stigmatized. It’s wrong.
Ahh, another person participating in whichever thread Diogenes is participating in. Would you like to post some quotes equating herpes with leprosy? Or claiming that this is the most evil action a person could do? Or sharing statistics on how horrible herpes is? And a like, preferably? Because I’d love to go debunk their ignorance. However, no one in this thread has done any such thing - in fact, the worst statements about herpes and how it affects people were made by actual herpes sufferers, who are quite capable of describing their own condition.
Yeah, those are exactly the choices I think people should be able to make, because as I’ve been saying, people have the right to determine acceptable levels of risk for themselves. Only the dudes that this bitch had sex with were not given that opportunity. No matter how minor the infection is, it’s not her place to decide if it’s worth it to them to risk it.
Again, please share the quotes that villify those suffering with it. Because I’d like to give those jerks a black eye on behalf of some of my friends. However, since (once again) this thread has been fortunately free of such things, kindly address the points people have actually been making.
Yeah, and for all those reasons, it’s up to each person to decide how much risk they’re willing to take. If you want to live like a normal human being, your risk of contracting it is nonzero. However, people have a great deal of power to reduce the risk, and they should be given the information they need to act accordingly. For someone to deny that information to a sex partner is a really shitty thing to do.
Who judges that harshly? I’m free of herpes, but even so, I hope I’m good enough at picking sex partners that they wouldn’t “villify” me or impute nasty things about my sexual history based upon it. I know it’s not easy to share things like that, but you know what? Not everything in life is easy, and if you’re facing social stigma for having herpes, then you know exactly why other people should be given the tools they need to avoid it.
You want to argue the issue, Ooner, start reading the damn thread and responding to the points we’re making. I feel pretty damn insulted here because you implied that those who disagree with you - including myself - were “villifying” folks who suffer from herpes, comparing it to leprosy, or calling herpes sufferers sluts. I never said any such thing. No one in the thread did. We have judged this one individual person on the basis of her own behavior, which was to knowingly risk spreading a disease. No one in the thread said anything negative about herpes sufferers in general, so stop implying we did, you jackass. If your argument wasn’t so weak, you wouldn’t have to build strawmen to attack or imply that we’ve said things that we haven’t. You have a personal agenda to share? Start a thread in MPSIMS. But stop assigning people arguments they didn’t make.
I’m not trying to advance a social stigma, but what I’m saying is that herpes can be more than just a minor inconvenience to some people. The pictures serve to prove my point. Do you think that having open sores on the genitals is gonna leave you feeling all nice and warm inside?
Look, I’m also not trying to villify anyone that has it; on the contrary, I admire people that cope despite having to hear EVERY SINGLE DAY that the disease that they have is “like leprosy or something”. You’re not gonna tell me that having to hear about how bad of a disease herpes is isn’t going to have a negative effect on the way a person that has it lives their life at times. All that I’m saying, is that while it might not be as bad as everyone makes it out to be, it could be devastating to an individual that wouldn’t know how to cope (which is probably why that person shouldn’t be having sex in the first place, but people don’t always tend to do what is good for them, either).
I can tell you firsthand, however, that you cannot control the way people perceive themselves. A person might still feel devastated whether I say something in this thread or not. Some people just aren’t strong emotionally, and that’s what I’m arguing about. I know that I’d be able to cope because it’s not a big deal, but like I said, I still wouldn’t wanna have it because of what a hassle it would be to have to alter the way I do things now (and I would).
I just feel it’s morally reprehensible to be engaging in an activity that might probably do harm to another party involved, without the other party knowing all the risks and having made an informed decision of his or her own. That person would know the extent of his or her ability to cope, better than I ever could.
Or a link, even.
SIGH Look at what you just wrote. ROamin hands, rushin fingers IMPLIES sexual contact. So if your europhlanges contact your eyes after such activity, how can you claim that sex doesnt cause herpes in the eyes? It may be rare, and is cause for me and mraru to wash our hands after playing [well we like to shower together afterwards, actually] because being diabetic, I already have one possible strike [diabetic retinopathy] headed my way at some ephemeral time in the future…
and merry christmas:
herpes blindness
herpese scarring on the cornea is one major source of blindness in the US
http://vision.about.com/od/othereyediseases/f/ocularherpes.htm
I only have about 139,000 hits on google i can look through for more.
Meh.
You have one pair of eyes, take care of them. There are diseases/infections out there that do not respond to treatment, so it is prudent to avoid them…or take a few ‘money shots’ to your face unprotected, see if I care.
Sorry, I suppose I made more accusations than were warranted towards people in this thread. I still think society as a whole has a horribly overblown idea of what a big deal herpes is, but you’re correct that this thread is not a great example, with only a couple exceptions:
Post 7: “Ask her if she’d feel fine if one of the guys had AIDS and wasn’t telling her.”
Post 9: “What a whore”
Post 21: “Deliberately subjecting others to the risk of contracting a painful and incurable disease amounts to sociopathic behavior.”
Herpes is not AIDS. Having herpes doesn’t suggest that one is promiscuous. Being afraid to tell somebody, but taking all precautions otherwise including treatment isn’t sociopathic.
Sorry again for sounding like I was trying to start shit with all of the people who are saying the girl is wrong. I agree she was. I just meant to remind people that there is more to it than “hey just tell your partners” because the way a lot of people think about herpes, including some in this thread, it’s a hard thing to talk about for many people.
Jesus H. Christ in a chariot-driven sidecar.
From this site (and any other health source that knows what it’s talking about): “As the herpes virus is fragile outside the body, it does not survive long on surfaces or in air. This makes it extremely unlikely that a person could acquire genital herpes from a toilet seat, bathtub, towel, or other inanimate object. Care should be taken to avoid touching active sores and to wash hands frequently, however, as the virus may be spread to other areas of the body, such as hands, eyes, or face.”
So a far more likely explanation for getting a herpes thigh lesion is self-inoculation from another part of the body (i.e. a cold sore on the face), rather than “catching it at the Gym”. Or from Mr. Toilet Seat, Spreader of Plagues.
This fallacy does provide a handy excuse for sleeping around, though. “Sorry, honey, I must have caught it at the Gym.”
One can only hope that DrDeth’s “Doctor” is a chiropractor or naturopath, rather than an actual MD coming out with such stupidity.
One of these days, people will learn the difference between analogies and equations. Because this did not equate AIDS and herpes. No one said they were even similar in their impact. However, it did demonstrate that the doctrine that one should “take responsibility” and “blame themself” if they get an STD is not one that has any validity. People get sent to jail for deliberately infecting others with AIDS. Does that mean the same would be appropriate for herpes? Of course not. But it certainly shows that there’s a strong sentiment in our culture that people shouldn’t spread STDs knowingly.
If you think that this was said because she had herpes, you must definitely be looking for something to be offended by. She’s someone who decides to go around and have sex like an irresponsible bitch. I’ve been calling her “bitch”, “cunt”, and “slut” - because of her actions in deliberately exposing others to herpes. No one here has any problem with folks who have herpes per se, and if you think we do, reread the thread and stop looking for reasons to be pissed.
Is herpes painful? Is it incurable? Did she deliberately subject others to the risk of contracting it? Yes, yes, and yes.
The poster was an MD, and not necessarily a psychologist, so he is probably somewhat capable of evaluating sociopathic behavior but certainly not of making a statement that the woman is actually a sociopath. I think this was hyperbole used to suggest that her behavior was utterly wrong and unacceptable.
She had sex without a barrier. That’s not even close to taking all the precautions. And since we all understand by now that a barrier is not sure protection, even that amounts to knowingly taking a risk with someone else’s health, and their sexual health no less. People have the right to autonomy when it comes to their sex life and their sexual health. It’s sick to suggest that it’s okay to decide on that risk for someone else.
Hey, if you can’t scrape up the courage to tell others? Fine. Get a fucking vibrator or massaging showerhead because you don’t get to have sex without telling. You don’t get to have it both ways. She is not required to have casual sex with gentlemen that she doesn’t know well enough to talk about sex with. She chose to do so, and she chose to do so at the risk of those gentlemen’s health. She violated their right to give informed consent about their sex lives. And no, she didn’t have to. Either act like an adult and scrape up the courage to talk, or else you don’t get to have sex.
Sure, there’s more to it than “just tell 'em.” There’s “just tell 'em or you don’t get to have sex.” If the emotional consequences are so deep that you can’t talk to anyone about it, get some therapy and stop fucking. Newsflash: You do not have some inalienable right to fuck. If you don’t want to do it responsibly, then don’t do it.
Can someone explain to me the bit about how because herpes isn’t “serious,” these actions were OK?
'Cause frankly, if you have a **cold **and offer me a sip of your Pepsi without telling me you’ve been horking mucus for a week - I’m going to be pretty pissed.
No, herpes isn’t the end of the world. But it’s still uncomfortable, it carries a social stigma and creates pain and suffering and embarrassment. Not as much as a forced scrotal piercing in Times Square, perhaps, but pain and suffering and embarassment nonetheless.
I’m sorry if my last post sounded like I was trying to debate this any further.
Repeat: Sorry for any misplaced accusations.
I don’t think a single person has said the actions were ok. I’m just saying it doesn’t make her Hitler, that herpes is not leukemia and that these guys knew the risks when they stuck their dicks in.
Uh, again, in your first post in the thread - you said they deserved all the blame.
I’m not saying I can translate from Diogenes to English but that certainly comes across as “It was all their fault.”
Nevertheless, I’m glad you’re backpedaling. It shows you don’t hold the ridiculous views you first espoused.
I’m not backpedalling, dicktit, I’ve been saying the same fucking thing for the whole fucking thread. If you want to parse the phrase “they have only themselves to blame” as literally as possible to try score some kind of petty debating point, then whatthefuckever. I’ve said consistently throught the post that she shouldn’t have done it. My point is about perspective, not a simplistic moral binary. She was wrong, but dude, it’s not that big a fucking deal compared to giving them AIDS or, say, stabbing a baby.
Yeah, Excalibre, where do you get off, reading Diogenes’ posts literally? That’s exactly the sort of bullshit I’d expect from someone like you, who has repeatedly compared giving people herpes to stabbing babies!
He’s an MD. Note that he didn’t say “certainly” just that it was "likely’. But clearly, even though you’re NOT an MD, and you did not examine me, or take my medical history, you know better than he does- as you read a website. :eek: :rolleyes:
But even your cite says “extremely unlikely”; as opposed to “impossible” and “does not survive long on surfaces” as opposed to “does not survive outside the body”, thus it’s not a “fallacy” it’s just “unlikely”. In fact- it’s also unlikely to get Herpes from someone who isn’t going through an active outbreak too. But you seem to think that’s worth worrying about.
You also don’t know my little gym, where the stationary bikes had a waiting line, and I often got on within seconds after the other person got off- in other words less than " long". If, as you suggest, I could spread it by touching a cold sore on place A on my body and then touching place B- you are saying the virus will then survive a few seconds exposure to the open air- and that’s all those seats were open for. Since I have never had a facial cold sore, nor any other attack in any other location, that is a good guess on the part of my Doctor. Of course, I certainly could have touched an infected female on her privates and then touched my thigh, or she could have. But I didn’t enter her vagina with my thigh. Honestly, I have no idea of from whom I caught it or how. I don’t use the excuse “I caught it from a toilet seat”. I don’t have sex when I have an outbreak, so I don’t need excuses, and I do inform all my partners with whom I have unprotected sex, just in case.
However, the location is EXACTLY where you’d expect it from a stationary bike seat. I admit it’s odd, and my Doc also said he thought it was unusual. But there it is.
I don’t think a single person has called her Hitler. :rolleyes: But there are people (yourself included) trying to defend her actions based on a personal marker on the “badness” of the disease.
Think of it this way: would you feel the same way if she had syphillis and not telling her partners? Crabs? How about HPV?
How about telling it all and letting her partner decide what he’s comfortable exposing himself to?*
I did see someone call her a sociopath, which at the time I thought a little extreme. However, the idiot level in this thread has made me look up the defining characteristics of a sociopath (now called “anti-social personality disorder”) just to be ornery. And durned if she doesn’t meet quite a few (bolding mine):
And, if I were her partner, I’d be quite inclined to press some sort of assault charges on her as well, which would bring 1 and 4 into the fold.
So, it is indeed quite possible to engage in sociopathic behavior without being Hitler.
Yeah, not wearing a condom is stupid. But not informing a partner of sexually transmittable diseases is reprehensible. Taking away the free will of another person is my working definition of evil. Maybe not as evil as Hitler, but reprehensible nonetheless.
*If I sound a little over-engaged in this discussion, it’s because at one time I thought I had HPV and I wimped out and didn’t tell my partner because I was too embarrassed, and because I thought he wouldn’t sleep with me and I really, really wanted him to. He later found out and confronted me in a rather (understandably) nasty way with this very line. Turns out I didn’t have it after all, but I still feel very shitty for not disclosing to him what I thought I had. It was immoral and wrong and, yes, evil and reprehensible. I take the whole incident as a strong warning from the Universe to be more forthcoming in the future should I ever catch anything.
**And, just for the record, if I ever sleep with one of y’all, I’d like the warning if you have herpes. Apparantly, I’m one of a handful of people left on the planet who don’t have oral or genital herpes. (Epstien-Barr, but that’s another story.)