And who would that be?
Considering you throw in a big old ‘but’ at the end of those, it seems you have a rather careless attitude toward the spread of herpes.
It’s best to fully in form them anyway, but what? If you’re not having an outbreak, they won’t know you have it and should’ve told them, so you can just sneak that by?
I said "1. During an outbreak-Never have unprotected sex without a latex covering over the sores. This includes even Oral sex. It’s best to skip sex altogether (well, if you both know you both have it, then it’s up to you) during those times, but…
- During an outbreak- fully inform your partner. It’s best to inform them anyway, but…
- In general- don’t have unprotected sex without being in a long term monogamous relationship."*
I have also said “That being said- honesty is still the best policy. That’s my MORAL advice.”
I fully disclose my herpes to anyone I would have sex with. In fact, I never said anything that would even imply I don’t.
However, i understand how to some it is very shameful, ot they are afraid of getting some sort of black mark in their micro-community, or they are afraid of how they will be treated or how the person will react. Thus, I understand some dudes just not having sex instead. And, of course we all know by now there is nothing you can do- other than a plague bell or a full body condom- that will 100% prevent the spread of herpes.Do you inform your partners about the irsks of herpes when they have sex with you? Do you have unprotected sex?
Considering that my doctor has given me a clean bill of health, no HSV-I or HSV-II, what risk of someone catching herpes from me exists?
I have never known anyone who asked to be tested for Herpes that didn’t have any symptoms, but if you say so… :dubious:
I was under the impression that blood tests for HSV are not diagnostic as the antibody for HSV-I crossreacts with the antigen for HSV-II. How would one determine if they have genital herpes if they DO get cold sores on the mouth, but has never had an outbreak of genital herpes? Or am I mistaken?
At my lab, the docs have to swab the actual sores and send them for viral culture for a definitive diagnosis of genital herpes.
NAF1138 , I agree with you 100%. In the vein of “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, I can’t see how any responsible person would not tell their potential partner.
Well, I haven’t heard of a blood test that is 100% certain, I got a culture swab same as you.
Here’s one cite: “Because the genital herpes sores may not be visible to the naked eye, a doctor or other health care worker may have to do several laboratory tests to try to prove that symptoms are caused by the herpes virus. A person may still have genital herpes, however, even if the laboratory tests do not show the virus in the body.
*
A blood test cannot show whether a person can infect another with the herpes virus*. A blood test, however, can show if a person has been infected at any time with HSV. There are also newer blood tests that can tell whether a person has been infected with HSV 1 and/or 2.” emphasis mine
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm
Thus according to that site, anyone- tests or no- may still be infectious, but hey, who I am to say?
Plague bells for all, I guess… :eek:
No, just a little honesty for all.
Look, I’m willing to admit that all my doctors and labs might be wrong and I might be a silent charrier. That means thay my sexual partners have a 1 in 7 chance (accepting Inkleberry’s numbers for the moment) of sleeping with someone (me) who might have herpes. That’s the default odds of any one person having it. I don’t know what the transmission rates are, but let’s leave that aside for a moment.
You, and the girl mentioned in the OP, and lots of other people DO know they have herpes. Your sexual partners have a 1 in 1 chance of sleeping with someone who DOES have herpes.
Calling our transmission rate X, then my partner’s odds of catching it are .1428X - your partner’s odds are X - seven times the risk!
So having intercourse with a person of unknown status is a lot safer (through still abyssmally stupid) than having intercourse with a person who is a known carrier. Therefore, a known carrier has a moral responsibility to make the odds known. I know that if someone doesn’t know they have herpes, I have a 14% chance of exposing myself to it. But if my partner knows he has herpes, I have a 100% chance of exposing myself to it. What I don’t know, unless my partner is being honest with me, is which situation I’m in. And there’s a huge fucking difference between 14% and 100% - a difference that only I should be making decisions between, not you or anyone else who isn’t living in my body.
Is this really that hard to understand?
Shoot, that should read unprotected intercourse, of course.
Sure. But let’s go over some facts:
-
Protection helps but is not 100% reliable.
-
You can be having an outbreak but not know it (asymtomatic as** Jackmanni** calls it) and thus be infectious. (Most dudes refrain from sex during known outbreaks. )
-
It is not nesssesary to actually have sexual intercourse to pass or catch Genital herpes (II)- and it is much easier to pass “cold sore herpes” (I). Sure, the more “intimate” the contact, the more likely.
-
You can have either form of Herpes and not know it. Blood tests are not reliable.
-
Most dudes have one form or the other. If you are sexually active with multiple partners, the chance of you having Herpes II is quite high.
-
You can have Herpes II on the oral regions and Herpes I on the Genital regions, even though the other way around is much more likely.
Thus, one can attempt to reduces the chances of passing it on or catching it, but you can’t reduce them to 0. You must decide what is an acceptable risk.
Now, like I said- I beleive in:
- full disclosure,
- not having sex at all during known outbreaks, and
- not having unprotected sex except with a long-term monogamous partner.
However, due to the HUGE amount of ignorance* on the subject of herpes, and the "scarlet letter’ effect it has, I can understand the MORAL choice if someone just goes for 2 and 3. That does reduce the chances considerably, mind you.
*even I, who thought he was well-versed on the subject- learned something here. **Jackmanni **suprised me by how common asymtomatic passsing is, and JillGat educated me as to how common it was to have the disease and not know it.
No, they don’t. 1 in 7 is nowhere near “most.”
Agreed.
But how do I decide that if you don’t tell me you have it? The risk is far greater if you know you have it. Then it’s not a heoretical 1 in 7 risk, but a very real 1 in 1 risk.
I don’t play cards, but would you place the same bet on two twos as you would four aces? If someone won’t let me look at the cards, I have no way to know what kind of bet to make.
“5. Most dudes have one form or the other. If you are sexually active with multiple partners, the chance of you having Herpes II is quite high.”
This is the only hard statistic presented in this thread (that I can find) from an authoritative source. Please direct me to statistics showing that a majority of men carry HSV I or HSVII and then I’ll shut up.
"# About 50 percent to 80 percent of the adult population in the United States has oral herpes.
Most people contract oral herpes when they are children by receiving a kiss from a friend or relative.
About one in five adults in the United States has genital herpes, however as many as 90 percent are unaware that they have the virus.
Anyone who is sexually active can contract genital herpes."
http://www.ashastd.org/hrc/educate.html#common
So- that’s up to 80% has Herpes I, and 20% has Herpes II. Of course, there’s overlap, but still, that qualifies as “most” in anyones book.
20% = most, huh?
Gotta love the New Math.
By the way, for someone who’s been insisting that herpes is transmitted by inanimate objects, you missed this little tidbit, from your very own link:
“There are no documented cases of a person getting genital herpes from an inanimate object such as a toilet seat, bathtub or towel. Herpes is a very fragile virus and does not live long on surfaces.”
I’m glad that you’ve been educated somewhat in the course of this thread, DrDeth and are willing to acknowledge it, but you’re not quite all the way there yet.
Problem with reading comprension, or just so full of yourself you don’t listen? :rolleyes:
Here is my original statement that **WhyNot **was questioning: “5. Most dudes have one form or the other.” Again- most Americans have been infected with EITHER (or both) Herpes I (“oral”) and/or Herpes II (Genital). Up to 80% of Americans have Herpes I- that’s “most”. Unless you don’t think that 80% plus some % of 20% = “most”? :dubious:
“Does not live long” does not equal “dies instantly without any chance of transmission”. And remember this cite Environmental surfaces like toilet seats may be a source of contagion, but there is no evidence that this poses a real threat to the general population. Experts differ as to how long the virus can survive on its own. The primary cause of infection remains intimate contact." “Experts differ” not “we are all in 100% agreement on this”. :rolleyes:
Never expected so much response, or really any kind of heated debate. Kind of glad this all happened though as reading the responses (especially the heated debate) helped me to clear my head and think about things rationally.
I am still not sure what is going to happen to my friendship with this girl, its been one of those situations where we have been friends for going on 3 years now, and this is a side of her I NEVER expected. It has totally changed the way I view her as a human being, so we will see what happens.
On an interesting side note, I have discussed this with several other friends, but because I don’t want anyone to know who I am talking about have always not disclosed any information about the person including her gender. I find it interesting that only one person asked if it was a man or woman, and when I told them that I didn’t think I should say immediately assumed it was a man. Everyone else (male and female) didn’t ask, they just assumed it was a guy. Wonder what that says about our society?
Apart from your having adopted the upper end of the 50-80% estimate and ignored the oral/genital herpes overlap, you still misunderstand or are in denial about modes and likelihood of genital herpes infection.
The relatively common nature of oral herpes infection (as indicated by having antibodies) reflects childhood infections, most of which are long dormant by the time the person is an adult and having sex. The risk of such people causing a genital herpes infection in a partner is miniscule compared to the risk posed by the woman in the OP, who was still having “severe” outbreaks of genital herpes but would not bother to inform her partners.
A sexually active woman who experiences severe outbreaks of genital herpes is far, far more likely to cause such infection in another compared to a person who had a couple of cold sores as a child and had nothing since.
Yeah, that’s rolleyes-worthy.
Better to be full of myself than to be full of shit and constantly spewing it on passers-by.