Have YOU ever had to make that choice? I doubt it-you wouldn’t be so judgemental if you had. Walk an effing mile, honey, and then you get to comment/criticize.
Which would you have preferred? To leave my 3 kids w/o a mother or for me to have a medically neccessary abortion? I chose to stay alive and keep parenting my other kids–oh, and I think my husband, mother/father/remaining sister and brother, my friends and colleagues are somewhat glad I am still around. But maybe I’m just conceited.
Fuck you and people like you in spades.
I waiting for this poster to come back and say–“oh, I didn’t mean you or folks like you …”
Make your own posters with gruesome pictures of Emily Lyons, the abortion clinic nurse who was mangled by “right to life” bomber Eric Robert Rudolph. I have not linked directly to the pictures because some of them are too horrendous, so you will have to click on the hospital pictures yourself.
If they are going to judge all pro-choice supporters based on the results of partial-birth abortions, then I have no problem equating all of them with Eric Robert Rudolph.
I do wonder what effect that would have, considering that this is the state (though not the area) where a community harbored that man because he was, in their words, “doing God’s work.” :rolleyes:
Muad’Dib, start a new thread if you want an abortion debate. I don’t care which side you take on this; my point is that those people should have put a little more thought into how to convey their message.
It seems to me that most people are misdirecting their ire at the methods used by these abortion protestors. Don’t you think that displaying nasty pictures in public is a logical, restrained consequence of the belief that abortion (literally) equals murder? Would your protests against state-sanctioned mass-murder be any daintier? Unless you honestly believe that all you’d do in the face of a holocaust would be to sing inoffensive chants and hand out some leaflets, why would you attack the methods in question? Given what they believe, anything that falls short of physical coercion is commendable, in my opinion.
What you should take issue with is not the consequences of the “abortion=murder” logic, but instead the logic itself. At least with that tac, there’s the possibility of some reconciliation or, at least, understanding.
I actually support abortion when the mothers’ life is in danger (there are few people who do not) or in the case of extreme birth defects (the kind in which the child will never achieve consciousness).
2.Yes I have. My sister got pregnant at 16 and was going to have an abortion so that she could hide it from my parents. Luckily I talked her out of it and I now have a happy, healthy 5 year-old nephew that I love very much.
Even if I had not had to make that decision, so what? That is a cheap argument and you know it. I don’t have to have been a slaveholder or a slave to know and argue it was wrong. looks in GD I do not live on the border, so does that mean I can’t have a well formed opinion about the Minutemen? I am not an artist, so does that mean I can’t give an opinion on what art is? I did not live under communism, so does that mean that I can’t render an opinion on the aspects of Soviet Russia? Like my grandfather said “You don’t have to be a chicken to tell a rotten egg”.
Comparisons to abortion clinic bombers are also cheap and wrong. Just because there were (and it has been several years since the last bombing) some nut-jobs in the Pro-Life movement does not mean that it is wrong. Did John Brown make the anti-slavery movement wrong? Should people protesting slavery been faced with pictures of the men he killed as some sort of ‘fairness’ counter to their posters against slavery?
But how does she feel about it? What kind of education does she have? Career prospects? Debts? Retirement fund? I hope you’re helping to pay for his upbringing, since you take so much credit for his existence.
I like those people who organize fundraisers where people can pledge money to pro-choice causes, and the money accumulates for every minute or hour the protestors are out there. It benefits the community as a whole, and the protestors get the uncomfortable knowledge that there is money going to NARAL (or whatever) as a direct result of their own actions.
Quite apart from comparisons to the anti-slavery movement being cheap and wrong, let’s address your John Brown analogy.
Brown, while apparently possessing deep convictions on the subject of slavery, was also a murderer whose followers hacked people to death for the sin of living in a pro-slavery area. His actions did stain his movement.
To get back to the OP, are there any places where you think placards of aborted fetuses are out of place?
At the exit of an elementary school when classes are letting out?
An open-air farmers market?
A funeral service for the Pope?
A Pearl Harbor commemoration?
Outside an intensive-care ward for critically ill infants?
One might argue that increasing consciousness of the evils of abortion demands that graphic reminders be placed everywhere on all occasions, regardless of how offensive or counterproductive it would be.
I would say the choice I favor is one that I make myself. Not one that someone makes for me.
It was a valid question. If you’re going to make a decision that is going to affect someone’s life for 18 years, you better be there to take responsibility for that decision. No matter which way it’s made. My choice. Not yours. Mine. When you have a womb and are faced with that decision, then you are free to make it. My reproduction is none of your concern, nor the concern of anyone else elected or otherwise. Want to make abortion illegal? You better change your tune about “state sponsored children.” We’ll be seeing a lot more of them.
Why it is considered a good idea to protest with those photoshopped posters I do not know. It usually has the opposite of the desired effect. But the people who do so are so far beyond holding a reasonable discussion on the issue that saying anything at all to them is considered a challenge. They’re frothing.
These people with their bloody/dismembered fetus signs really upset me. And while I am pro-choice (letting people choose for themselves), I really dislike abortion. I would really like to see people choose something other than abortion. But these people are way over the top.
These people don’t care who they might upset. We had a group here that would set up just around the corner from my son’s preschool. Try explaining to a 3 year old why those people are holding pictures of dead things. Thankfully he couldn’t tell they were babies. I turned quickly off the street and went home a different way. Then they would show up on random days, so I would never know if I had to take a detour to get home or not. Eventually I just started taking the detour (longer) route everyday, just in case. He doesn’t go there any more, and I didn’t see them the last time I was downtown, so maybe they’ve gone for good.
Wait, so it’s okay to murder babies sometimes? What about after the baby’s born, and we discover then that it’s braindead, and going to be on life support for as long as it lives? Can we dash its head in? I mean, it was a baby in the womb, and it’s still a baby now, so the same rules apply, right? By what method do you come to your conclusions about which kinds of baby murder are acceptable?
And why do you get to decide when so-called baby murder is okay? Rather than, say, the pregnant woman?
I’m missing your point. They’re out of place anywhere - those placards are a cheap, quick attempt to upset everyone in the general area. There was nothing accompanying these posters besides a caption stating what it was; no statistics, no information as to why the abortion occurred…it sure as hell didn’t teach me a thing.
Great. You just described the first two trimesters of fetus-hood. I knew you’d figure it out once you started using logic and stopped applying emotional religious rhetoric to the question.
Again, say that this was Germany around 1943 and someone was protesting the Holocaust by showing shocking pictures of emaciated Jewish corpses. Or say that it was that same year in America and someone was protesting lynchings by showing pictures of the bloodied and beaten corpses of southern black men. Would you say that that was in poor taste and they should instead hand out fliers with facts and figures?
I said “If it will never gain consciousness” not “if it does not have consciousness”. If you went by that deffinition then it would be ok to kill a man in his sleep, or while in a coma because of their lack of consciousness. If a being does not have consciousness, and never will (or never again will as in the Shiavo case) then they are no longer human, they are just a mass of tissue.