And yet, this is not Germany 1943, this is the USA, 2005. And no one is forcing women to have abortions, it is their choice to do so. Try to stay with the facts. How is it productive to show photoshopped posters of bloodied fetuses? These people are not gaining any converts. The only people who are going to agree with you are people who already agree. IIRC, though, they most certainly did hand out fliers with “facts” in Germany about what a menace the Jewish population was.
That’s correct. A mass of cells without awareness dependent on a host for survival. Not in the womb crying “mommy, please don’t kill me!” No matter how much abortion protestors want to believe it.
But you missed the point. That mass of tissue will eventually gain consciousness. To kill the child then is no different then killing them in their sleep.
My point (addressed to Muad, who hasn’t responded) was that if one believes so strongly in consciousness-raising on abortion, is no venue is out of bounds for bloody placards?
The ultimate cheap, offensive and historically inaccurate comparison for anti-abortion rights activists is to contrive analogies between abortion and the Holocaust. Muad’s foray into this territory provides further evidence that he is confusing displays designed to enhance a personal sense of moral superiority with effective tactics.
Just like how a packet of seeds smells as sweet and stands as tall as a plot of blooming hollyhocks, right?
Quite possibly. There may be venues where it would be less effective than others, but again, we are talking about what, I and many others believe, is the murder of millions of the most innocent of our world. Such extreme issues often call for extreme measures.
Eh? Where has religion entered this discussion? I am not a religious person, my views on abortion come from much thought and consideration on my part, not because some damned theology told me so.
By his logic, to protest pedophiles, one should find the most heinous kiddy porn one can and make big huge displays of it in public.
I have no desire whatsoever to continue Muad’Dib’s hijack, so let me just throw in my .02 cents worth on how to make your own small statement to protesters of this ilk that you oppose… kindly let them know they’ve misspelled something. For in a public forum, how you present your platform is very important and you wouldn’t want to turn anyone away simply because of poor grammar and the like.
If it were legal, yes.
Hijack it is.
Wha-? You understand the difference between “potential” and “actual,” right? Do you understand that a sleeping human being is an actual human being in a dormant state, and a first-trimester fetus is a potential human being without the capacity for awareness? It is not dormant, it is without the qualities that make up human awareness or function.
Time’s arrow moves in one direction, my man. You’re either murdering a baby, or you’re excising some tissue. Don’t dance around with this soft-headed “it’s as if it was sleeping” mumbo-jumbo to try to put some sort of rational facade on what, it’s obvious, is a decision based on what you find oogy.
That is where I disagree, it stopped being a potential once the egg was fertilized. In my view a fetus is a human in a dormant state.
I should clarify. I meant if pedophila were legalized, then such protests would be called for.
PS, I didn’t hijak this, the people responding to me did.
Actually I take that back (damn my itchy post finger). None of this is a hijak, it is all part of an explanation as to why the Pro-Life protestors would feel the need to use such tactics.
Agreed, carry a few old steel washers to toss them. You get the effect of throwing a coin & let them know the real value of their protest at the same time.
But…that’s not actually true.
No, I got the point. I just disagree with it. Eventual is not current. Current mass of cells=mass of cells. What it will grow to be is not what it currently is. And as long as it’s a mass of cells, not a sentient, aware person independent on another living thing for its continued survival, then it isn’t a baby. You’re not required to accept my decision (based on clinical knowledge), but you’re not allowed to force me to accept yours. And that’s what this is about. Not about saving babies, or genocide, or what you as a person believes. It’s about you trying to make my decisions for me. You’re not allowed.
Wow. You’re a fucking idiot. Having a friend or relative deciding whether to have an abortion is not equal to making that decision for yourself. It’s not even close, and that you would equate your experience as an interested bystander to that of a woman struggling with what might be the most difficult decision she’s ever likely to make in her life is asinine and insulting. Jackass.
That is where we disagree, I say that it is a human, with just as much of a right to life as me, it is just in a different stage of its life and abortion ends that life just as assuredly if someone shot me dead right now. There is no basic distinction between the two.
We aren’t talking about preference of Pepsi over Coke here, there are lives at stake. When your decision results in the death of innocents it is my moral duty to first try and persuade, and failing that, to force you. Was it wrong to force abolition on the south?
I sure as hell didn’t want a debate…
Force me? That is probably the most asinine thing I have ever read on these boards. Just what in the hell gives you the right to make a decision about my body, or any other woman’s body!!! If you don’t like it, then fine…go stand in the street, go wave your bloody posters on the corner, I don’t care. Just don’t think for a minute that you can force any woman to accept your opinions on this matter.
I’m not sure why you continue to insist on making comparisons to situations that aren’t even comparable. If you want to fight child slavery, go to it. There are a lot of countries where children work in deplorable conditions and die in staggering numbers. I’m sure your help and time and money would be appreciated. Even lauded. This is not child slavery. This is not genocide. And they are not “innocents.” They are cells, gametes, things without higher brain functions (until 26 weeks gestation). In other words, less of a person than was Terri Schiavo when her feeding tube was removed.
Oh, and until you take financial and physical responsibility for your nephew? You had no right whatever to make life decisions for your sister. None. Your acts are not noble, they’re deplorable.