Damn Newbies over @ GD

The BBQ Pit
1

OK, I’ll be the first to admit that I was a sorta “newbie” here not so long ago. But, even if I was sorta new HERE, I had plenty of Eps. :smiley: But over in GD, we’re starting to get some new KIDS, who have no idea how to debate. Their idea of a GD is to state: “I heard ‘X’ so ‘Y’ must be true”, without verifing/citing “X”. Even when you call them on it, all them come up with is “well, I read it somewhere so it must be true”, or “you prove ME wrong” :mad:

Look Kids, unless you want to be torn to shreds & fed to the Wolves, or be considered a “troll”; cite a few facts. I’m not even asking you to, god forbid :rolleyes: , crack an actual BOOK… You know how to use a search engine, that is how you found US, right? Then USE IT!

You are here because you want respect, acknowledgement and to be treated like adults, right? Then EARN our respect. Or stay in MPSIMS :smiley:

2

You’re joking, right? I can’t imagine anyone seriously expecting these things here.

3

People not only can expect it, they sometimes actually get it. It’s usually not gained, however, by calling long-time respected posters trolls.

Just a thought.

Esprix

4

Now, now, Daniel, I thought we weren’t going to be judgemental any more about newbies OR trolls. :smiley:

But seriously, I know exactly what you mean, and the only thing to do is just try to set them straight, or else ignore it. Eventually either one of two things will happen: either they’ll get tired of being yelled at and will go back to MPSIMS, or else they’ll figure it out and become decent debaters.

Not everybody comes to the SDMB with actual experience in having a logical debate, where you’re required to back things up with cites, and where you’re expected to proceed rationally from Point A to Point B, without cluttering up the issue with Point S, which we haven’t gotten to yet, or Point 29, which isn’t in this alphabet, or Point My-friend-at-work-says, which isn’t even on the same planet.

Sermonette:

And my personal favorite:

Reading the book of Proverbs, you start to get the feeling that they must have had message boards back in Bible times.

:smiley:

5

Now you’re *importing * trolls to trash?
Don’t you have any other interests?
Give it a rest.

6

Alright Daniel,

I admit that I’m new here. I further admit that I haven’t been using proper debating form with cites and such on the GD forum. For the annoyance I may have caused you I apologize.

However, I am not uniformed about the subjects that I post to. If you want factual data from me just ask and I will do my best to back up what I have said.

In the meantime, aside from the established trolls (Pashley, Califboomer etc.) Who offends you? Why have you not cofronted them in the threds to which hey post? Or have I missed those threads?

7

On this board, assume everyone wants it and provide it from the get-go. Otherwise, well, put on those flame-retardant undies, pal.

Awfully well-informed for a self-proclaimed newbie…

Esprix

8

God, I agree with you 100%, Daniel. In the “Fat vs Thin” debate, we had a spirited little discussion that was dying out when some newbie “Nacho4Sara” showed up and started regurgitating just about everything that had already been said. When I called her on it and asked her to kindly read the entire thread first and then add something if she’s going to come in at the end, I got this response (my quote is first):

Then I of course asked her not to take everything so damn personally, so I got this response:

I have now been accused of being rude for describing fat people and for having my own personal standards of intimate attraction that may or may not include fat people. Most recently I was just accused of being narrowminded because I want to debate the OP and not just accept the prevailing wisdom among those folks on the other side as established fact. What’s sad is that she swears up and down that she’s read the entire thread, but she keeps missing my references and attributing things to me that aren’t mine (like the hoho comment) and calling me an asshole for asking her to get more information before she shoots off her mouth! :mad:

We’re now moving away from any kind of debate at all on the OP or anything related to it - now it’s more of a debate about the quality of her debating skills and why I’m insecure about myself for pointing them out. :mad:

If this goes on much longer I’m going to start a new flame myself… fucking newbies - I think that the 50 post rule is beginning to look mighty tasty. :mad:

9

I agree. From now on, no-one is allowed to post until they have at least 50 posts.

10

Er, Johnny, you don’t think you might have been just a tad rude?

11

Oy vey! :rolleyes: Educate, don’t insult. Remember, we’re all here because we worship Cecil who is fighting ignorance not merely insulting the ignorant. Well, ok, he insults them, but then he goes on to answer their questions too.

If any new poster wishes to ask my advice and get a respectful answer, you may e-mail me at lhamelin@iname.com in confidence and I will do my best to inform or merely to encourage, as needed.

12

Hey, Danny? I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not talking about me here. :slight_smile: Speaking of which, when in the flaming HELL are you gonna address my ridiculously well-supported WAG about the Framers’ belief in private gun ownership as a natural right which didn’t need to be enumerated? After all, I’ve cited more than a few facts… :smiley:

13

Not really. I’m being a bit rude right now because I’m in the pit, but my remarks directed at her weren’t that rude.

If you’re referring to my original comments in the thread itself (her assertion that simply describing a fat person as fat is rude to the fat person), then no, I still don’t think I was rude.

Since I made that post she’s made a few more asinine comments and I have subsequently invited her to come into the pit. Let’s see what happens…

14

No, GAD, I’m not talking about you. You do need things pounded in a bit :smiley: , but you DO know how to debate, cite sources, and concede points. And I thought I did answer your point, but I just posted again, and if that isn’t clear, I’ll try again.

Espix; “calling long time respected posters trolls”? Are you talking to me? I do not understand your point. :confused:

SINGLEDAD: I AM trying to educate, not insult. I could flame these guys so bad the price of aloe gel would jump. But I hope they are saveable. So instead of trashing, I’m trying to get them to listen.

PV: Yes, you are one of those I was trying to reach, but you’re the best of a bad lot, I think you have promise. I do not bother to flame Trolls, as they are beneath my notice. Listing Trolls only gets them what they want. This is not an anti-troll flame, it is an “incapable of debating with the big boys” Flame.

NTM: thanks, great verses. :cool:

15

Oh, that’s going in the sig.

–John

16

Why do you people have to be so damn condescending to new posters? What, were all the anti-newbie screeds sinking too low and you had to add your own?

If you’ve got a problem with people who post unsupported arguments, tell them. Don’t just go and flame “newbies” as a group. Now, let’s everyone stop being assholes to the new guys and try to assimilate them, like we were all assimilated.

-waterj2 of Borg

17

Flaming new posters is like shooting fish in a barrel. Tempting but unsportsmanlike.

18

Danielinthewolvesden: You talking about me here? I’m probably the newest newbie ever to newbie in the GD (my 2nd post was a new thread, the one on whether having children should be a right), and if I’ve posted a load of old shit, sorry about that. I’ll take constructive criticism though, where am I going wrong?

19

[Hijack]
Great hopping electrons! I just read in this annual report that Gordon Moore owns 177 MILLION FUCKING SHARES of Intel. Um, I think that beats my 3 of a kind. I just had to say that.
[/Hijack]

So kids, seems to me we are lining out some rules that I don’t see posted anywhere. Last I heard, I can state an opinion without citing somebody’s PhD thesis.

Of course, the horse exhaust that johnnyharvard ran into with Nacho4Sara is enough to give you a nosebleed. Some of that might wear off after a little orientation. Some of it might just be a person who has never been trained to think logically. If worse gets to worse, that’s what twit filters are all about, right?

I’ve learned a few things since I started posting here. But there still seem to be a few things where I differ with some folks. For instance, if I’m wrapped up in a debate, I don’t feel the need to respond to each and every bullet point item that gets posted. It might be off subject, a repeat item, or just too stupid to waste pixels on. The fact is I have a limited amount of bottom time here. I need to get in, say what I got to say, and let the reader draw his/her own conclusions. If somebody doesn’t like that, life’s a bitch and then you marry one.

So if you state an opinion, be clear that it’s an opinion not a fact.

If you’re going to state a fact, be ready to back it up.

Be ready to support your position with facts and/or a consistent philosophy.

When you get your ass kicked and you know you are wrong, fess up. Put a little salt & pepper on those words and chow down. It’ll make you a better poster.

Know or learn the rules of deductive and inductive logical reasoning. Just because you really really think so doesn’t make it so. Your emotional state has no effect on my opinion.

Try to be witty and original with your flames. The old “I’m gonna BBQ your spleen” thing has been done once or twice before. Study the masters.

Anybody care to add to the list? Why don’t we spell it out.

20

Perhaps being assholes is part of the assimilation process.

IIRC this could be, or I should say might be… Wait, I should admit up front that I don’t have a cite, but I know I read about something like this… No, someone told me about it at the library, or was it the Discovery People Channel? Anyways I believe it so it must be true that… OK, I confess; This is a WAG.
BUT…

Could it be considered hazing?