Damn you, Bill Cinton.

Yes, this is what you think it is, sort of. I am taking Bill Clinton to task, and yes, the blowjob will rear its ugly head here, but that’s not exactly what this is about. You’ll see what I mean in a moment.

This morning on NPR News they had a feature piece on President Bush and his attempts to have his policies on the treatment of prisoners pushed through Congress. They said that the policies, as submitted, barely passed the House, making it unlikely that the policies will pass the Senate. This is good news, as I see it. Later, they asked one William Jefferson Clinton to hold forth on the topic because he has an insider’s view (as a former President) on the topic. You can find the interview here.

I found myself agreeing with every single thing he said. Everything.

So, on to the vitriol.

Damn you, Bill Clinton. I voted for you in 1996 (when I was 20, my first vote), and you had to go and screw everything up for your boy Gore by a) making people hate you by lying, and b) distancing yourself from Gore leading up to the 2000 elections. How does a smart man like you, with so much to offer, make such a shambles of things?

This may be the first time I’ve said this, and I’ll probably regret saying it now, but I’ll tell you this: at this moment, right now, with everything going the way it’s going, I’d take Bill Clinton back without a even a second thought. I disagreed with the man on many, many issues, but on most important issues he was both dead on and quite moderate. It’s too bad that it took an extremist like President Bush to make me see that. The irony is that I thought Bush would clean up the White House and be the moderate that he said he would be.

I’d like to say that I was wrong and move on. The real shame of it is that I’ve never been right. And all because Bill couldn’t keep it in his pants and tell the truth about it. It’s a damn shame, that’s what it is.

I think Gore has no one to blame but himself (well, that and the GOP smear machine, but he should have seen that coming) for his electoral college defeat. Much as I have come to respect him after the election, the man just didn’t sell himself very well.

I’d be interested to hear more about what you agree and disagree with him on, and what issues you consider to be most important. I’m a big issues person, and I’m always curious what things folks find most important.

If the constitutution were changed (ha!) that would allow Clinton to hold office again, I’d vote for him in a New York minute.

I cannot say the same for Al Gore. It wasn’t Clinton’s fault that Gore lost. Gore =/ Clinton.

It was my impression that Gore distanced himself from Clinton (and that may just have lost him the election), not vice-versa.

It’s probably more that I’ve come back to him than anything else. A few “for instances”:

DADT- Back then I thought that was outrageous. Now I think that the policy should be eliminated altogether in favor of openly homosexual people serving.

Universal health care- We shuld have some sort of UHC, although I’m not at all sure of how we can make that work. Back then I thought it was the stupidest idea to come down the pike I’d ever heard.

Businesses- I thought he let it get out of hand, and to a certain extent he did (witness Enron, World Com and the like), but what we have now is not all that great either, so I fall somewhere in the middle, more towards Clinton.

Gun control- I will forever disagree with his gun control policies. Forever. What was passed in 1994 was some of the most useless feel-good legislation of all time.

Foreign policy- Much, much better than the policies of George W. Bush, although I disagree with his decisions in Somalia and Kosovo and think he needed to take a firmer grip on terrorism (WTC '93, Khobar Towers, and the Cole bombing come immediately to mind). I think he could have built a consensus on dealing with such acts, which is something Bush has been unable to do in spite of all the goodwill generated by 9/11.

The list goes on and on. Some of the things that I thought were really bad have turned out to be quite reasonable, and none of his decisions (that I can think of ) have had the lasting negative effects that Bush’s will for years to come.

If Hillary runs…

Yeah, same here. Gore didn’t want to be associated with the whole Monica thing, and so he cut Clinton off from himself.

sigh Airman, I know how you feel-at this point, I’d take even Bush the Elder over his incompetant crotch apple.

Absolutely. It shows the folly of the Democratic party that our strategists for some reason listen to the right wing extremist “concern trolls” rather than paying attention to reality. Hysterical GOP nonsense aside, Bill Clinton was immensely popular. Gore was an idiot to try to distance himself from Clinton. He probably wouldn’t have lost the election had he made a better decision there.

That was my impression as well. For example, I’d heard that Clinton offered to campaign in Arkansas and Tennessee during the last couple of weeks for Gore (both were close states) but Team Gore said no, because it looked too much like he was depending on Clinton. Anyone else have a similar recollection?

You do realize that with this OP you have lost your Bush Apologist status forever, don’t you?

Are you kidding? Remember the hatred of him by the pubbies? Is that what you want, a country divided? It’s beyond my imagining.

We could probably analyze Gore’s loss forever, and come to no real conclusions. But I have to say, after he lost, he’s really shown his quality. It’s a huge mistake on our part that he’s not in office right now. If only he’d tipped his hand earlier.

That was the same mistake that Dole made.

Just curious- what was wrong with the way the WTC 1993 attack was handled? They found out who did it and arrested them. Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do when dealing with an act of crime?

I still disagree that Clinton lied about sex. If you do not define fellatio as sex, then he truly did not have sex with that woman. And even if he rode her like Secretariat, there would still be a huge difference between lying about personal affairs and lying to start a war.

Just to second what PunditLisa said about voting again, and to say that it was great to hear someone who actually, y’know, pays attention to the issues of the day and speaks on them articulately and with a clear indication of his thought process.

Gore was scared to death of Lieberman and the blow job. He distanced himself from Clinton.

I, too disagree with the gun cotrol policy. It’s why I want a republic. :slight_smile: Untill then, I have to choose the guy who I agree with the most.


I will speak plainly–Richard Nixon was a paranoid son-of-a-bitch, but I’ve found myself wishing I could swap Bush-league for him, as Tricky Dick was corrupt, but nobody’s fool.

He was a first-class foreign affairs President.

He would probably turn his paranoia into a toll for defeating Al Qida, to boot.

I’m probably alone on this, but I actually would prefer that Kerry had won than Gore. Kerry may be somewhat dull, but he was intelligent and statesman-like. And I vastly prefer Teresa to Tipper.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d give my left nut to have Clinton back in office. And I’d also give my right nut to see him kick the shit out of Bush.

But I don’t see any way in which a blowjob is not sex. It doesn’t carry the same risk of pregnancy, but it carries all of the pleasurable and emotional baggage. If genitals have been manipulated for the purpose of pleasure, then sex has taken place.

Never thought this would happen, but I agree with every word you said!