You disagree? Some cites would be agreeable.
Some cites from you (other than just a link to an 82 minute video) would be nice as well.
And here’s a review.
Just more “drek”, eh, tom?
Between this and the Third Jihad thread, I’ve been inspired.
I’m thinking of a piece of media that will radically change your views on everything. You must all now go out and find it, read/listen to/watch it, and report back for discussion. I refuse to say what it is, what format it’s in, or why it will change how you see office chairs, Xenon, and the fulcrum, among other things. Surely you will all be brought around to my point of view, which I refuse to disclose for obvious reasons.
Go! Time is short!
I think the thing is, adhay, if the ugliest scenarios of Post-Peak Oil are actually going to come true, there isn’t really any use in trying to educate people now. By definition, it’s too late.
Your newsletter. I would like to subscribe to it.
True on any global or national scale. Still some time to regroup locally, however.
Yes, pigs can learn to dance.
It’s not that there isn’t a discussion to be had here (one that we’ve had more than once, I might add); it’s that you aren’t going about starting it very well.
Thanks for your Rubin cite.
The problem of starting a rational discussion of the need for developing local sustainability is basically the difficulty of bringing people to the active awareness of the inevitability of an unrestrained rise in fuel prices. Once there, it is easy to foresee that local agriculture will be a necessity and needs to be addressed now.
Taking time to watch an 82 min video on the extent of our cheap oil dependence and the effects that dwindling reserves are bound to have globally seems beyond the reach of many.
How about this nice graphical presentation?
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5969#more
From the intro.
[bolding mine]
The topic was one worth discussing.
You chose to ignore the topic in order to have fun hurling insults. Your drek was posting in Great Debates in a manner that was deliberately insulting.
If you are incapable of seeing the difference, just post in the Pit and stay out of Great Debates.
Which part of this are you wanting to do? Bring people to active awareness or address the issues of local agriculture?
All snark aside, I’ve found that people don’t respond well to posts which look like a command to WATCH THIS NOW !!. Perhaps you’d be better off laying out your points of argument (or take them from the book/video) and see how that works out.
Or, you could start a thread with the assumption that people already have the “active awareness” part done. “How do you see local agriculture efforts in your area panning out?” or something like that.
I have watched the video and I disagree with your point 1). Those industries might be different without cheap oil, but they will still exist.
As a result of the previous paragraph I don’t think your point 2) is a big deal even though it is probably true.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point 3) but I was here before I even watched the video.
#2 has some disagreement even amongst Peak Oil people. Some say that the price can’t just climb indefinitely; that once it reaches a certain point, nobody will be able to afford it so it kind of stagnates there.
It probably will be a big deal, but it’s too late to do much about it.
OK, everything is made from oil. Do you knw why that is? It is not because everything could not be made from anything else, and civilization will collapse without oil. It is because oil is cheap. When oil becomes expensive, we will make everything out of something else. Peak oil does not mean we run out of oil; peak oil means the price begins to rise, making other raw materials more economical.
Yes , the world as we know it will cease to exist, but by then we will be living in the world that we do not yet know. You claim it will be worse; I think it will be better. My opinion is based on history; what is yours based on?
I didn’t say I disagreed. I agree that we rely too much on fossil fuels, that we need to find alternatives, and that it’s going to bite us in the ass if we don’t start doing so soon.
BUT, what I said, is that it is up to YOU to convince me that your ideas are correct. And not just by saying, “here’s a video, watch it! Then you’ll agree with me!” That’s just being lazy.
“Dancing pigs” indeed. More like flying.
I almost hate to ask, but… what the hell is “YN”?
From the OP
Notice they do not fly so much as plummet.
^^ Well, even a rock will fly if you throw it hard enough.
Not to mention the original phrase is “teach a pig to SING”, not dance. 