Owww… My head.
I’ve been reading Dante’s Divine Comedy (Part 1 - Hell) recently. Is it just my imagination or is it really really hard to follow?
It’s interesting, in a strange sort of way, but I’m not convinced it’s worth wading through it. I probably will, out of sheer stubborness if nothing else, but I was wondering what other people thought of it.
We read part one in English 4 in highschool, and when he describes the devil, I had to repeatedly stop the teacher and ask for aids in imagining such a three headed beast.
As is everything from the era (Renaissance I believe) is hard to follow, (imho of course.) I feel so that Dante’s works are.
Any one else concur?
Depends on the translation; I recommend John Ciardi’s. No, it wasn’t written in the Renaissance, but around the end of the 13th century.
The Comedy wasn’t written as lightweight entertainment; you will have to exercise your brain.
Depends on the translation. I like the ummm…Cicardi(?) translation a lot.
Some tranlations are more opaque than others.
I’d tried to read it once and failed. After that, I read an SF book by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle called Inferno where they sent a science-fiction writer to Dante’s Hell. After reading the Niven/Pournelle novel I went back to Dante and found it had made reading Dante easier: I was able to visualize what Dante was driving at better…
It’s definitly worth reading.
Fenris
The Ciardi translation is astounding. I’ve reread the entire trifecta a few times, and I never do that. One of my all-time favorites, although certainly not the kind of tale you read on the beach…
Oh, my! It’s one of the greatest pieces of literature ever written!
Baldwin’s right, though – your enjoyment of the work depends on the translation you’re reading. IMO, Robert Pinsky’s translation is really good, i.e., true to the original text and easy to follow.
For me, the coolest thing about the Divine Comedy is that the same verse, the same line, can have 4 different layers of meaning. Even the sound of language contributes – for example, when Dante comes across the three animals before entering hell, Dante uses several words containing the “gr” sound to describe the wolf, like the words themselves are growling. (Magrezza, grame, gravezza in the Italian.)
His use of the contrapasso, God’s system of justice, is brilliant. For example, Canto XIII is the canto of Pier della Vigna, the suicide. Big simplification ahead: As his punishment, his soul has been turned into a tree, his corpse is slung in his branches, and he can only speak when Dante breaks off a twig, which bleeds in his hand. So, because a suicide uses the freedom of movement to kill himself (deny himself movement), he is doomed to immobility. Whereas those in heaven will be united with their glorified bodies after the Second Coming, this man is already united with his body, useless, a rotting corpse in his tree. And just as he communicated his pain and suffering by harming himself, so must he be harmed now in tree-form in order to speak.
And the really neat thing is that Dante didn’t come up with the idea of a bleeding bush – it’s in Virgil’s Aeneid. Dante just made the image so much richer and more meaningful, using Virgil as a guide, just as Dante the character…uses Virgil as a guide.
I love him!
Are you reading the Inferno for a class or on your own?
FWIW, I read it for a class and I feel that you really need to take a class in it to understand it. A class with a very good teacher. For one thing, there are many, many allusions to literature and history that one can’t detect on one’s own unless one is a Medieval Italian scholar. Furthermore, there has been so much commentary published, stretching over hundreds of years, that you’d practically have to refer to the notes after reading every line, and how would you know which person’s commentary to use?
But if no class is available to you, please don’t give up! Pinsky’s translation does not come with notes, unless I’m mistaken, so that’s probably not the best one to use at first.
It really helps to take a class while you’re reading it for the first time.
Case in point: Black Lite mentioned having trouble visualizing the devil. There’s a fair amount of evidence that Dante made things hard to visualize deliberately (can’t remember the name of the scholar, but this is a current thread of debate academically). Hell is supposed to be difficult to measure and inconsistant–it’s a realm of lies and untruths.
And that’s just one of many things. I doubt I’ll ever grow old and experienced enough to fully understand the DC. Just keep reading and enjoy the occasional discovery–it’s one of the few classics that really does hold up to repeat readings.
And if you think Hell makes your brain hurt, wait 'til you get to Purgatory and Paradise… 
Yeah, but if you read the Ciardi translations, they have some great illustrations (especially in Hell for the Devil and the Malebolge).
shudder Inferno didn’t really freak me out, but some of the images in Purgatory gave me the heebie-jeebies like no other tale!
No, I’m not reading it for a class. I’m a maths student, so (in the english system) no classes on the subject for me, and none in a time or place that I could randomly drop into. Oh well.
I’m not entirely sure which translation I have - I can’t seem to find the name on the book (I’m sure it’s there, but it isn’t anywhere obvious). I will take a look for the translations you reccomend.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
If you’re at Cambridge I’m sure you’re allowed to attend lectures in subjects other than your own ( though classes and tutorials are a different matter). You could try asking your literary friends what lecture courses on Dante are available.
kitarak, if you’re really interested in reading the books - rather than just a passing fancy - I would strongly recommend the Ciardi books. They’re likely in your school library; I think they’re the most popular translation. The editor annotated the text with scores of footnotes, and even if you know nothing of those particular times, you’ll get a real sense of what Dante and Virgil were experiencing.
And another thing–if your edition has end notes at the end of each canto (and I recommend one that does, because referring to footnotes every line is ANNOYING), read them before you start the canto. Twice. You’ll thank yourself for doing it…
Jabba: Yeah, I am allowed to attend lectures other than my own. But I’m reasonably sure they’ll clash with my lectures/supervisions/whatever. Whenever I try to go to a lecture course from another subject it usually happens.
dantheman: It’s mostly a passing fancy. However, I will check in my college library once I have myself a new swipe card (Note to self: Never, ever, lend my swipe card to a friend again).
I dunno - contrary to what slortar says, I like reading the Canto through, then reading the notes. It helps me with the flow. Since it’s translated, I can usually get the gist of the meaning, even if I don’t grasp the allusions.
Another vote here for the Ciardi translation… the drawings were most helpful. I have all three sitting in my garage waiting to be unboxed.
But am I the only one who thinks that Paradise just sucks? Hell was really interesting, Purgatory was -eh-, but trying to wade through Paradise was more of a headache than either of the other two. Carve me out a spot with the Virtuous Pagans and be done with it. 
I’m going to have to jump in and recommend Allen Mandelbaum’s translation of the Comedy. It takes both a good knowledge of Italian and previous experience in writing poetry to translate an Italian poet and Mandelbaum did for Dante what, for example, William Arrowsmith did for Eugenio Montale. Mandelbaum’s translation is not only accurate, made with an understanding of Dante’s metaphysics, and flowing, but it is also authentically poetic. Best of all, he didn’t stop with the Inferno like most translators have, but translated all three books into an extremely consistent work. Mandelbaum’s translation is available in paperback from Bantam and you can sample parts online at
Cantos V and XXXIII
UnuMondo
I liked Paradiso. Purgatory was pretty “eh” for me as well. For what it’s worth, I didn’t start to get in Paradiso until Dante ascended to Jupiter. From then on, it was gravy. I actually cheered at the end.
Sure it does! They’re all at the end of the book, though.
I’ve read Pinsky’s translation of Inferno and Ciardi’s Purgatorio – haven’t gotten to Paradiso yet, but intend to. I’ve also read excepts from another translation of Inferno (for a class – that’s how I first encountered it) but I’m not sure whose it is.
And I agree that you either need a classroom setting or really good notes, particularly since nearly everyone with a major speaking role is a contemporary of Dante; knowing something of the context really helps.
Indeed. The one that sticks with me is the image of the envious with their eyes wired shut… :eek:
Though Inferno did freak me out. Count Ugolino… shudder
it’s on my list of things to finally read before I die (with Milton’s PARADISE LOST & Tolkien’s SIMARILLION).
If you have trouble visualizing stuff, get ahold of (I can’t believe no one has mentioned) the illustrations by Gustave Dore’.